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Why Chiang Mai is Number 1 for Digital Nomads

24 Reasons Chiang Mai is the Best Place for Digital Nomads

24 Reasons Chiang Mai is the Best Place for Digital Nomads 538 218 cmbadmin

Why is Chiang Mai the best place for Digital Nomads?

Being a digital nomad allows the total freedom pack your belongings get in a plane and work wherever you want. Why then are so many (possibly over 3000) digital nomads choosing to live and work for extended periods in Chiang Mai City Thailand?

I myself, have done the working online and traveling since 2002, long before Tim Ferris and the 4 Hour Work Week, gave me a job title, I could use to explain myself to others.  Back in the early days, I traveled the United States in an RV, paying US$500 a month just for satellite dial-up internet connection.  In 2 years of RV’ing  I only ever meet one other person you could call a digital nomad.  Twelve years later, after many countries and scores of cities, I found myself returning to Chiang Mai so often, I decided there was no longer any point going anywhere else. In Chiang Mai hardly an hour goes by without meeting another nomad sitting in a cafe, a coworking place, a meetup and even just walking down the street.

So what makes Chiang Mai so appealing to the Digital Nomad?

I am going to bet, this is not the first blog post you have read about Chiang Mai right?  It seems that now, there is not a travel blogger worth their salt who has not been or lived here and written about this beautiful Northern Thailand city.  In fact there are social groups here in Chiang Mai just for travel bloggers to get together and hang out.  Chiang Mai is home to thousands of Nomads, from all categories of online business. Already Digital Nomads know that Chiang Mai is the number one city, and there are hundreds of reasons we keep coming and returning.

Chiang Mai Buddy was created and set up due to the increasing number of digital nomads who began discovering what Expats knew years ago; That Chiang Mai ROCKS!  Our focus is of course to help prepare you to make coming to Chiang Mai a stress free and as inexpensive as you can.  Because despite all the amazing benefits of this city, packing up and moving to a new country is a huge life decision.  Having a friend already in the city helps makes the transition easier.  But enough of the sales talk.  lets look at why you should make the decision to put Chiang Mai at the top of your list.

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1) Chiang Mai Digital Nomad Community

Digital Nomads having a ball in Chiang Mai

Chiang Mai Digital Nomads have an active and strong social network

Chiang Mai has an incredible amount of open social network groups that are constantly providing training seminars, dinners, social outings, meetups and networking opportunities.  Gone are the day’s where networking in Chiang Mai required joining private membership clubs such as the Tropical MBA Podcasts ‘Dynamite Circle. ($588 per year) or the more recent Nomads List (one off $49).  In fact the free and open social networking groups in Chiang Mai, Thailand have memberships that exceeds these world-wide communities several times over.

The social communities in Chiang Mai, provide information on “how to…”, “where to…” and “when to…”; along with opportunities for hiring and selling the services of each other within the local environment.  Least not, the constant social events, training seminars by visiting experts and free workshops put on by locals wanting to network and promote their services. – And that is just the Nomad Groups!

Long before discovered by Digital Nomads, Chiang Mai was (and still is) a retirement haven for many Expats from  around the world.  They have over years built social and entertainment networks that exceed many times over the specialty digital nomad communities.  Lana Cricket have used the Gymkhana sports grounds for over 50 years, ranging a wide variety of tennis, golf, cricket and other sporting and social events.

“Wait a Minute”, I hear some of the readers say, “This is about Digital Nomads, why are you telling me about the other stuff”?.  Here’s the bottom line ….  So many Nomads who make Chiang Mai their home, never extend their social networks outside of the digital community.  BIG MISTAKE!.  The stories you will hear from retired English MI6, as they argue with retired American Intelligence agents over a beer are far more interesting than Joe Nomads latest SEO budget expenditure and the results.  The amount of information you will gleam at the Chiang Mai Expats club breakfast or one of their scheduled events, is an incredible wealth of information and resources.  If you are going to live in Chiang Mai for an extended period of time – do not make the mistake of burying your head in the silicon sand of exclusively Nomad world..

Some of the Many Social Networks available in Chiang Mai
For more check out our Resources

I Love Chiang Mai – We all love Chiang Mai – there is a great files section with loads of information. This is a secret group, you will need a friend who is a member add you

Chiang Mai Events  – it’s usually here if it is happening in Chiang Mai.

Couch surfing in Chiang Mai – Couch surfing in the international free accommodation and travel group.

Whats Happening Chang MaiThe primary focus of ‘What’s happening in Chiang Mai’ is to provide to voice to those connected to Burma and social justice issues generally. We welcome posts that are of value to the audience advertising events, and important news affecting our community.

What, Where, When Chiang Mai – A page for people, event organizers, promoters, bar owners, club owners to let everyone know what’s happening in Chiang Mai. Feel free to add people to the group, the more people on here the more we’ll know what’s happening in and around Chiang Mai

Chiang Mai – For people wanting to come to or already living or just interested in Chiang Mai

Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai  – Over 3000 digital nomads make Chiang Mai their home.  Most of them share ideas and events in this group

Chiang Mai Happy Hour Nomads – Looking for a new place to get together with friends? New in town and looking for a group to join n for drinks? Keep an eye on our group for our weekly meetups… We will explore new bars, return to old favorites and share our experiences along the way.

TEDx Chiang Mai – Chiang Mai’s affiliated TEDx talks

Farang Community Chiang Mai – An ask and you shall receive group for foreign nations in Chiang Mai.

Teachers of Chiang Mai – If you have questions about teaching vacancies, necessary teaching credentials, professional development ideas or just need some ideas for teaching activities post your comments here!

Teachers in Thailand: Agarn –  The Ajarn school forum and Facebook page

Thailand Foreign English Teachers Network – Support group for Foreign Teachers in Thailand.
Job postings, visa issues, agents issues, Classified advertising, Group trips and more

2) Cost of Living in Chiang Mai

Cost of living in Chiang Mai Thailand

Front page of the Nomad List website .. says it all

One of the biggest attractions of Chiang Mai, Thailand is the cost of living.  The Nomad List website, which compares the cost of living in cities around the world, rank Chiang Mai as one of the cheapest places to live.  This is supported by the Digital Nomad Community forum and website, as well as International Living, a subscription based retirement community.

You can live here on an extreme budget, choosing accommodation like Siriruk Apartment for less than $100 a month.  Or for $500 stay in a fully serviced Hotel like the Victoria.  If you are staying here longer, you are able to lease a condo (usually 6 months minimum but can sometimes you can find one for 3 months) and save even more.

A Motorbike rental can start as low as $60 a month, but beware, this will be a low quality bike.  Most likely older, 100 cc manual motorcycle.  You are much better off spending $90-100 and get a newer 125cc bike large enough and with enough power for the western frame. Newer motorbikes not only pack more power and acceleration (which might save your life) they are easier on the fuel as well.  Better bikes will end up alost as cheap to run as the cheaper older ones.

Food in a Thai Thai (the word to explain a typical local place) restaurant starts at 25 baht and seldom goes past 40 (US 75 cents to $1.20). Most people tend to go to the local places in more urban areas where you are looking at US$1-2 for a meal.  Western food usually cost more, but still much cheaper than is typical in your home country.  Although you will generally find eating out is cheaper than cooking food yourself at home.

You can live in Chiang Mai for about $500 a month.  You will live very well for $1000

3) Availability of Accommodation

Chiang Mai city is growing.  From almost any view in any Condo or monthly rental accommodation you will see new accommodation buildings going up. Long term condo leasing (6-12 months) is easily found, shorter term (3 months) more difficult but not impossible.  Monthly accommodation is readily available in the low seasons, but during high seasons you should book ahead of time.

Chiang Mai is not just a popular destination for online entrepreneurs, it is popular with tourists from all around Asia and Thais from other parts of the country.  The city is taking advantage of the increased tourist and short term visitors and building accommodation to satisfy the need.   This means that rental prices are going to remain low for years to come. There are buildings that are popular with the Chinese, with Japanese, with western Expats and some even fill of digital nomads.  So while accommodation is available – knowing where to live so that you are with people like you, is the biggest consideration

N.B.  On many websites and blogs people will say “Accommodation is easy, just turn up and look around”.  This used to be the case.  Since we founded Chiang Mai Buddy, 80% of our customers have come from street walk-in’s after they found that finding accommodation was much more difficult than they read online. I strongly suggest you do not take the risk during peak season of hoping for the best. Book a place and then look around.

4) Digital Nomad Hotspot

Now the most popular location in the world, Chiang Mai is full of digital nomads.  If you are starting out on your nomadic adventure, you will meet more of your future companions, friends, competitors and collaborators in Chiang Mai than anywhere else in the world.  You can find people who are here for a short time and want to travel, making it the best destination to find new friends to plan your future adventures with.

For those who want to stay longer, making Chiang Mai their hub for slow travel, there are many ex nomads (or nomads on a break) who have made this city their home.  In addition there are people who make their money online who do not consider themselves part of the digital nomad community.

Whatever your purpose for coming, be it short-term stay to start your career, bootstrapping, or because you have found yourself getting tired of living out of a suitcase. Chiang Mai has experienced and successful online entrepreneurial and newbies bootstrapping their dreams.  And the community shares information and helps each other with an openness and willingness to share.

5) Internet and WiFi

I am not going to lie, in your accommodation if you are sharing the internet it can be slow (2-10 mbps down and .5-2 mbps up).  But getting your own internet is easy and cheap.  Unlimited 10 Down and one up plans start at 550 baht per month. At Chiang Mai Buddy office we have 30 Down and 10 up, 112 TV Stations and a cell phone with more data than we need for a grand total of 799 Baht (Less tan $30 a month).

Cafes and Coworking spaces offer much faster internet speeds, and with a phone plan of $10 a month or more you have access the the massive amount of Phone provider WiFi hotspots all around the city.  Free WiFi is everywhere, paid internet is extremely cheap.  In my early days living here I visited so many cafes and eateries (each with free WiFi) that I could walk around and almost always be connected automatically on my phone.  But then I discovered how to get prepaid phone services and never had to worry about looking for free wIFi again.

6) Coworking Spaces and Cafes

In Chiang Mai you can not throw a stone without hitting 1) a Temple, 2) a 7/11 and 3) a place for the digital nomad to work from.  There are now 5 or 6 major coworking spaces, several smaller ones and new places opening all the time.  Every cafe offers free WiFi and has no problems with customers spending hours at a time sitting and working from within.  It is good manners to make a purchase every hour or so, but you are seldom approached or requested to.

You can be assured that at almost every cafe in town (and there are 1000’s of them) your fellow Nomad will be there working away, and often eager to spend some time chatting and making new friends.  You can check out the most popular coworking spaces in this article

7) Working Productivity

nomadbullshit

When you think of how the Digital Nomad lifestyle is presented to people before they start what do you think?  It’s the laptop at the beach right? Drinking coconuts! This is in reality – marketing bullshit.  Unless you have incredible time management and conditioned yourself with a disciplined work effort – if you are at a beach you are much more likely to be unproductive.

In Chiang Mai there is amazing support networks and social outlets, mastermind groups and more important you are surrounded by people being productive.  You are much more likely to get inspired here to work (and make money), if you are the some result of the 5 people you hang out with most – Chiang Mai is the place to find those type of people and mentors.

8) Chiang Mai Coffee

Chiang Mai Coffee

Chiang Mai Coffee Farmer explains bean flavors

Do you like Coffee?  People in Chiang Mai do!.  Here many of the thousands of cafes will have their own coffee farms and provide coffee that is some of the highest quality in the world.  The coffee here is what is known as the top 1% by those who spend time slurping and spitting it out. The Chiang Mai region grows Coffee –  It is 100% organic, grown under natural shade at high attitudes and hand picked, wet processed and dried in the sun, and packaged with single source beans.

If you compare this with the media attention grabbing Colombian coffee, which is often grown in fields, harvested with tractors and mixed with beans from other locations – Chiang Mai coffee ROCKS!

9) No Horns, Hustlers, Poverty & Ripoffs

Reasons to Live in Chiang Mai

In Chiang Mai, you are NOT constantly asked to buy things

For the beginner starting to travel around Asia, something they do not tell you in the guide books, or often mention online .. is the Bustle.  In many parts of Asia (Philippines, Saigon, Cambodia, South Thailand) the poverty is overwhelming.  You are confronted by beggars on the streets consistently asking for money.  For the new Nomad, trying to enjoy a beer at 3 am in a nice (or not so nice) bar to be interrupted by a naked 3 year old child with their hands out, is heart breaking (and then often gets annoying).

Touts, Salespeople, Tuk Tuk drivers, Prostitutes, consistently and persistently harass you.  In the Philippines along some of the most happening beaches, you will say no to someone trying to sell you fake sunglasses, and the next walking sales person will hear you say “No” but still approach you.  This type of constant harassment gets old really fast.    In Cambodia you will be offered a ride, then weed, and then a lady, and then 2 minutes later the cycle is repeated.

Horns are used in Asia, to let someone know they are 100 meters from them and approaching, that they are behind them, passing them, have past them, are in front of them, and just because they have not used the horn in the last 30 seconds.  The noise pollution is incredible.  Now some people find this last point “vibrant’ and actually enjoy the massive speed at which the world passes by them and the noise it makes. In Saigon, you are constantly being abused with this type of noise pollution.

This stuff does not happen in Chiang Mai

Yes a Tuk Tuk driver will slow down and ask you if you want a ride, a wave “No” of the hand and they move on.  You are not followed and repeatedly asked to buy things from touts on the streets.   Chiang Mai is a relaxed and layed back city that does not harass the tourists or westerners who live here. So if you need to work, if you need to focus, and you prefer an environment that is not consistently bombarding you with noise and harassment – Chiang Mai is your city.

10) Fantastic Weather

Press image to enlarge

Press image to enlarge

From November to February the weather in Chiang Mai is perfect.  Clear blue skies with 30°C temperatures and low humidity during the day and lower temperatures at night. Around March the temperature starts to get hotter, but Chiang Mai being located in the mountains is always a few degrees C lower than anywhere else in Thailand and most places in Asia.

The rainy season starts around May and sometimes goes until October.  The rain usually happens once or twice a day for 30-60 minutes.  And it is a downpour!.  You will have about 30 minutes warning as the dark clouds roll in and 10 minutes before it starts the wind picks up.  If you are under cover the refreshing breeze and cooler temps are a welcome visitor.

During the rainy seasons (really it should be referred to as the daily hour of rain) the surrounding area of Chiang Mai is beautiful.  Day trips, and rides to see the tourists spots or just to go on an adventure, will offer some of the best photos you will ever have the privileged of taking.  Worse case (because you do not want to ride in the rain) is that for 30-60 minutes you will have to stop off and sit back and relax at a cafe along your trip.

11) Worlds Best Food

Chiang Mai Street Food

Thai food is amazing, and here in Chiang Mai it is at least 1/10th of the price you would pay back home.   Food stalls and markets are found all over the city where you can sample local dishes for $1 a meal.

Well known Thai favorites like pad Thai and green curry are readily available, and Chiang Mai is famous for its local specialty Khao Soi. If you decide to attend a cooking school (around $30 for a half to full day) you will discover the secret to Khao Soi (OK, OK it is a Thai red curry with Indian curry powder mixed in)

Vegetarians and Paleo are extremely well catered for (Thais often go meatless in their meals for special Buddha events). When you tire of Thai food, there are hundreds of restaurants that cater for every other taste.  Indian, Mexican, Greek – you name it, Chiang Mai has an expat who has decided to open it.  For more details  Where to find Western Food in Chiang Mai

12) Cheap Fresh Produce

If you decide you want to cook for yourself (and most people give up on this idea after a week or two of living here because it IS cheaper to eat out) then the local markets in Chiang Mai are for you.  Lower prices than the supermarkets and full of local and imported from other regions of Thailand – the local markets are a busy and popular place with the locals.

The Markets can be slightly overwhelming for the new arrival, (we offer a quick lesson on how to go and purchase produce included with the Digital Nomad Start Up Tour) – but you will soon get the hang of it.

One of the Kings projects was to help the farmers convert from growing drugs to growing food. Farmers where taught how to grow particular crops and shown how to do it well.  If you are American – forget asking for organic, This is Thailand, almost all the food here is organic.

13) Relaxed, Non Sex-Tourist Atmosphere

Chiang Mai is a traditional city, populated with many migrants from the rural areas of Thailand.  These people have traditional and high values, and Chiang Mai is NOT what you might expect about Thailand from watching movies.  Here (unlike other parts of Thailand and Asia) you will not see the 90 year old man holding hands with his young beautiful play thing.  Yes this is Thailand, and there are parts of the city you can visit if you are feeling ‘lonely’ – but for the most part the people that stay here in Thailand have higher morals and codes of behaviors from the usual tourist.

Chiang Mai is also a relaxed city.  Things happen here at a slower pace, and no one is really in a hurry.  The city is big enough and caters for most people and most tastes, but lacks the zoom zoom speed of other Asian cities.  Some people find this slower pace is not for them

14) Fantastic People

Thailand is promoted as the land of smiles, and never more than in Chiang Mai.  The people are friendly and helpful and honest!  The locals here are not (unlike other parts of Asia) always looking for a way to get something from the tourist.  Locals will help you in times of need, and some of the sweetest natures in the world are possessed by the women here.

Because Chiang Mai is a relaxed and non sex tourist destination, many of the local expats are pleasant to know and engage with. As well Chiang Mai has 3 major Universities so the locals are youthful and educated.  One of the greatest things about being in Chiang Mai is that you do not have to always be on guard that your wallet is about to be taken advantage of.

15) Safety

Chiang Mai is rated as one of the safest cities in the world.  Crime against foreigners is extremely rare, and apart from riding a motorcycle, you will never feel intimidated or afraid for your safety.  You can freely and comfortably walk around either during the day or the small hours of the night and feel totally safe even if you are a single women alone.

The scams that fill the headlines in western media about Thailand and Asia just do not happen here in Chiang Mai – or at least are very very rare.  The one exception to this is the Mob run Karaoke Bars along Chang Klan road.  Here you can go in for an hour, have a few drinks with a few ladies and come out with a 30,000 baht bill.  Many (often drunk and loud) westerners do not understand how a few drinks and a couple of ladies flirting with them can cost $1000. The answer is simple – it is a scam – just don’t go there!

16) The Temples & Culture

things to know coming to Chiang Mai

Chiang Mai has Temples!  If taking photos of golden laced statues surrounded by orange and red clothed monks of all ages is your thing – you could spend months and months going to different places everyday.  If you are up in the early hours you will frequently see monks collecting elms along the side of the roads, monks traveling in public transport … monks monk monks!

Thai culture is valued very highly here in Chiang Mai, with a mixture of both rural and urban important events and traditions being celebrated.  Thailand and indeed Chiang Mai is relatively free from western religion, instead the vast majority of people (99%) are Buddhist and this culture is loudly and proudly displayed during the day to day activities of the people.  A few weeks before I wrote this post, myself and a friend where walking at night, and he collapsed and went unconscious.  Luckily we were outside of a medical clinic and the Doctor and nurses came to his aid, but the staff also immediately lite incense to appeal to the house spirit that controlled the area as well.

Asia is well known for its rich and vibrant culture, here in Chiang Mai you will be able to view massive amounts of it, each and everyday just walking around.

17) The Holidays & Festivals

The culture in Chiang Mai is vibrant and often celebrated.  Festivals and Public Holidays are times when the Locals, Expats and tourists alike relax, take time off and enjoy the many colorful and exotic experiences.  In particular Songkran (April 13-16) and Loy Kratong (Nov 25) are two events that draw overseas tourists and Thai’s from other regions of the country. These are two events that should be on everyone bucket list!

18) Beautiful Scenery and Landscapes

Chiang Mai Scenery

Let’s get this out of the way from the get go.  Chiang Mai is located in the North of Thailand, in the Mountains.  There are no beaches here.  But what is here is lush forests, mountains, old villages, rice fields, elephants, gardens, lakes, caves, temples, national parks and more.  There is a world outside of Chiang Mai (although it is fair to say there are many worlds contained within it as well).  that are absolutely spectacular.  Many Expats regularly go on motorcycle tours around the top of Thailand, taking several days.  More locally in just a few short hours you can go to many locations that will fill your camera memory card within hours.

19) So Much to Do!!

Chiang Mai Elephant Tour

There is more to life than just working, and in Chiang Mai there’s plenty to do in your downtime. You may have seen the Elephant Painting on Youtube – here in Chiang Mai you can go and see it for real.  You could visit one of the many Wats (temples); learn to cook Thai food, or how to give a massage.  Perhaps learn a new language or get qualified to Teach English and get a Visa and make money to live here long term.

Paintball, Salsa, Rock climbing, Trekking, Sports, all the usual things you would enjoy doing at home – PLUS the additional things you can only experience in Thailand.  Get blessed by a Monk, attend a retreat, learn how to train Elephants, relax with a $5 massage.  The choices are endless.

20) Cheap Medical Treatments

Here you can have breast implants for around US$1400, get braces for your teeth for half this amount. Dental treatment, Operations, Plastic Surgery – everything here is at almost a 1/3rd what you would pay in a socialist country with subsidized health care, and a fraction of what the typical American would would pay.

Health checks for $3, eye tests, medication the list goes on and on.  Thailand is a medical holiday country and these savings and benefits extend to local services provided by the medical health professionals here in Chiang Mai

21) Transport is Cheap

You can hire a motorbike for 3000 baht a month (sometimes less and sometimes more) – but if you want to use public transport it is easily affordable.  Chiang Mai is supposed to have a public bus system but you will never see it.  The reality is the Red Truck and Tuk Tuk mafia own this town.  Taxi’s are not allowed to drive around looking for customers, and there are no Motorcycle Taxi’s.  But! You can jump on the Red Trucks and travel for just 20 baht, a Tuk Tuk will cost you between 60-100 for a 5 kilometer trip (depending on the time of day and how well you haggle).

Hiring Cars for day trips is around 800-1200 baht.  If you need to do a Visa run, or want to visit another city (or country) the Bus, Train, Tour Vans and Flights are incredibly cheap.

22) Visa’s are Easy to Get

Starting late 2014, the government has started to tighten up the relaxed way they did the visa system here in Thailand.  Gone are the days where you could come in for 30 days and do visa runs to the boarder and extend your stay for ever.  Gone are the days where you would get an ED Visa and not actually attend your class.  Now you must have a proper Visa – but they are easy to get.

Most nationalities get a 30-day visa exemption when they arrive by plane, but if you want to stay long-term it’s best to get a 60-day tourist visa available from many neighboring countries—the nearest is Vientiane in Laos. A double-entry 60-day tourist visa will allow you to stay for six months by getting a 30-day extension at the immigration office, and then doing a border run after three months to renew.

Many people choose to use Chiang Mai as a base, and then visit other countries for a period of time, knowing they can always get another Visa in the countries they are in return to Chiang Mai.

If fact you can get a work permit through Chiang Mai Buddy for 30,000 baht.  Click here to find out how

23) Everything you will need is here

Chiang Mai is small enough to easily learn your way around and become familiar with the city, and big enough to have something for everyone.  There are may reasons that Chiang Mai is the Number one spot for Nomads – they can get and do anything they need to be successful.

Computer repairs, Internet, working spaces, recreational activities, women, friends, seminars, nature tours.  This list is too long to even attempt to begin to describe.

24) Chiang Mai Buddy

Chiang Mai is the first (and only as far as we are aware) city that has a Concierge Service specific for digital nomads. We make coming and staying in Chiang Mai an easy and stress free experience. We find you the best accommodation at the same price as if you walked in off the street, knew how to negotiate and paid cash. We pick you up and take you to your new home, motorcycle ready and waiting for you and then show you the hotspots for working, shopping and playing.

Once you are here, our online service means that you can call or send a text to have us make doctors or dental appointments, arrange for bank accounts, find child care, arrange for internet and TV – and everything and anything you could ask for.  How cool is that?

Find out what we can Do for You

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Can Digital Nomads work in Thailand on Tourist Visa

Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand?

Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand? 538 218 cmbadmin

There has been a lot of speculation and opinions concerning the question can a digital nomad can work in Chiang Mai, while staying in Thailand on a tourist Visa. The opinions and answers to this matter range from “yes” to “yes BUT” to “No”. Let’s clear up all the myths and misinformation because the reality is, that most of what people are hearing, repeating and sharing is wrong

My own opinion has run the gambit, starting in the flat out “No” camp and then started to read articles online and was influenced by people who appeared to know more than I did; (or at least claim with a confident sense of authority). For example this article by jonez450reloaded sounded impressive and I followed the links that were cited. The article changed my mind to the “It’s fine and O.K. to work as a nomad on a Tourist Visa” view point.  I did not bother to read the whole articles and just skimmed the headlines.  Big Mistake!

A meeting with my Lawyer regarding my own Thai company reveal my views were based on cherry picked knowledge (oh boy I was wrong again).  I decided to follow-up on this because he was of the opinion coworking spaces are on the target list of local Immigration as are some digital nomads.  It did not take too much effort to find that much of the advice and opinions given by the nomad community about this topic have come from distortions of quotes in original sources, or taken from newspaper reports quoting people essentially saying “I don’t know but I think …”

Let’s take a skeptical look at where our information is coming from and examine what is real and what is wishful thinking.

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Update: 5th Feb

This update information comes from a coworking space owner who has a vested interest in Nomads. Unfortunately (again) not prepared to go on the record officially or have themselves identified. Following up on my inquiry to them before this post was made they have said … Immigration have informed them …

  • They are not interested in digital nomads in particular but they are looking for foreigners that do illegal work like selling/exporting goods from Thailand online eg. Selling Thai made Furniture from Baan Tawai Market online.
  • Immigration said because they are under the military internal security act, they are forced by the military to be more strict.
  • They suspect foreigners that stay in Thailand for a long time go to work at the same place.
  • Coworking spaces are consider in the same group as Cafes and safe to work from.
  • No one is going to get deported
  • It is not just Immigration who decide to go on a Raid. It is also other departments such as Police and Military

Question and Think

What does this new Information mean?

This updated information does not really provide any new details except

1) Immigration is not the single authority who decides what and when to raid places.
2) Added hearsay credibility to the no one will be deported knowledge base

The same texts (info obtained via facebook chat) have been sent to others who have also blogged about it coming to different conclusions.  I know that the tone of my post is cautious and others paint a more upbeat position.

For a balanced view, between the overly cautious and upbeat check the Hobo with a laptop link at the end of this post

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In a Nutshell

Conclusion In a Nutshell: Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand?

  • It is Illegal to work as a digital nomad on a tourist visa
  • Immigration say they are not concerned with Nomads working at home, at cafe or on their first (possible 2nd) Tourist Visa
  • Immigration appear to be concerned with Nomads (or anyone) using multiple Tourist Visas and using ‘Offices’ (essentially not a Tourist but living here)
  • Immigration are concerned with Nomads (or anyone) promoting they are working and making money in Thailand without a Work Permit.
  • Almost all opinions shared by the community come from repeating misquoted or cherry picking original sources
  • Chiang Mai Immigration are still actively investigating and collecting evidence
  • It seems only nomads fitting a certain profile are at risk

It is important to note that sources I have obtained my information from have said nothing officially.  This information is admittedly given as hearsay from me to blog post.  But, (and it is an important but) – This information comes from people working in the legal and immigration systems in Chiang Mai.
Let’s be realistic from the start, why would anyone go on record placing themselves in the hot seat for a ‘blog post’? 

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Let’s examine how we are getting incorrect Information

Cherry Picking Facts!  As is often the case on the internet, the news report linked in the post by people to support their opinions are often wrong.  In the case of jonez450reloaded, in which he concludes digital nomads can work in Thailand … “There’s no grey area, the answer is yes. You don’t have to believe me: Immigration has said so. That article links to a story at Chiang Mai City News quoting Pol. Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkun, Superintendent of Chiang Mai Immigration who is paraphrased as saying

“If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.”

In Reality
The first article actually reported in the Asian Correspondent quotes quoting Pol. Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkun as

“Generally speaking, to work in Thailand, foreigners should hold non-immigrant B visas and must obtain work permits from their employers. However, the increasing number of people working online does not fit into any neat visa category”.

The second article in Chiang Mai News, is referring to the Aug 20th meeting organized by the Chamber of Commerce.  This meeting was mostly aimed at Expats, Business and Retired people.  In this article the reporter gives the paraphrased response.

“If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.”

This one sentence is NOT what Immigration spokespeople said, this is a reporter giving her opinion of what was said.  Does this matter?  Hell yes!  There is more to the story.  This was an off the cuff comment made by a spokesperson, referring to the change in visitor demographics and his opinion.  Granted his opinion is more valid than yours or mine – but it is not the complete story.

In the Beginning

Thai Immigration Law

Thai Law which clearly and definitely says … You can not undertake any work in Thailand while you are here on a Tourist Visa.  This is clearly written on every single Visa application form, in the details about filling in the form, on any website dealing with immigration assistance.  This is not a grey area at all.  People can ‘hope’ that the new paradigm of the Digital Nomad means countries will have to adapt their immigration laws to cope with it. Hoping and wishing does not mean it is true.  To be fair to Chiang Mai Immigration, they have stated they are not concerned with enforcing the law for most digital nomads here on a Tourist Visa.  But as you will see further down – not all nomads are safe!

The PunSpace Raid

Can Digital Nomads work in Thailand

On October 1st 2014 PunSpace (a coworking place), was raided as reported by telecomasia.net as a “bungled raid on a digital nomad co-working space in the northern city of Chiang Mai”:  One of the 18 (some reports say 11) people detained was well known nomad and Chiang Mai resident Johnny FD. Johnny informed a concerned nomad community what was happening with his blog about the situation with regular updates. Much of the guessing and speculation began here in the comments about Johnny’s attempt to report what was happening. Much of the theories and opinions where based around there being no charges laid, and everyone being released.

Because no one was charged speculation went from ‘bungled’ headlines to ‘everything is fine, they just did not understand what a digital nomad was’.  My research suggest in fact Immigration know exactly what a digital nomad is. The often online repeated statement “They did not know what a digital nomad was’ came from this news report which quotes a staff member of Punspace who actually said

““The soldiers asked ‘what are these farang (foreigners) doing here?’ They didn’t know what we are”. 

Let’s examine this more ….  A Punspace staff member was talking to a soldiers (the hired guns) not to Immigration personal.  The same newspaper report in the next paragraph states plainly

“An immigration official refused to answer questions about the raid, but confirmed they were monitoring places like Punspace “with lots of farang” as part of an ongoing investigation.”

The major impression we are given as a result of this raid is that Immigration did not know what a digital nomad was.  The factual reality is that Immigration declined to justify the reasons for the raid, but stated they are continuing to investigate.  These two conclusions are not the same thing.

The English Teacher Raid

17 Foreigners Arrested for Teaching Illegally in Chiang Mai

On January 23rd 2015 at 12.30am, Chiang Mai Immigration raided a modified office room in the ground floor of Riverside Condo on Chiang Mai-Lamphun Road and detained 17 foreigners, who were teaching English on Skype. The raid as reported by Bangkok Post has been copied and pasted and commented upon in online forums all over Chiang Mai and Thailand, with the usual speculations and opinions being expressed about the whys and whats of working in Thailand.

All 17 foreigners were taken to Mae Ping police station to be prosecuted, and their passports and laptops were seized. The were held for 8 hours before being release.  Prosecutions are intended for each of them, but as of yet I could not determine how many would be charged and deported.

Interestingly while this is simply a breach of the law, Chiang Mai News reported Officials saying they believe the teachers were tutoring “Chinese Spies” and have reported the matter to Thailand’s Security Affairs Section and Chiang Mai’s Chinese Consulate.  Training Chinese Spy’s? On the ground floor of a condo unit, in plain site of everyone!  Let’s not forget we are in Thailand, and in Thailand the Farang is always wrong, no matter what the situation is.

[hr]

The Digital Nomad able to work … Speculation says ….

The information given online, in forums, by word of mouth is totally inconsistent. I admit that I gave my own impressions of what I thought the situation was as well. And my ‘opinion’ was influenced and formed with intellectual laziness.   I did not take the time to go to the source of information and in hindsight I did what every human being tends to do.  I selected the opinions of others that fitted into what I wanted or already believed – and I downplayed information that contradicted this.

Over the course of the last few months, my opinion and advice regarding our ability to work here has shifted from yes to no to yes.  Like almost everybody giving their advice, I did the best to repeat what I hoped was the situation without actually looking into the reality of the situation with any effort.

There is too many different versions of what is possible and what is not possible, but the general consensus of the majority of online commentary experts seems to be…..

1. It is illegal to work on a tourist visa

2. It is illegal to work on a tourist visa, but just do it anyway

3. It is the same thing as checking your emails or going on Facebook

4. It is not illegal to work in Thailand as long as you are not working for a Thai company, receiving pay in Thailand and the work you do is not for Thai nationals.

5. As long as you don’t actually do a job a Thai person can do Immigration have no problems, especially if it’s online

5. It’s a grey area, there are no laws regarding digital nomads working here, let’s work and wait and see

Whats the Real Story!

Background
On Friday 30th January, I went to see my Lawyer, [edit] I have removed the reasons I went to see the Lawyer as that revelation while used to give evidence of my sincerity could be used against me at a later date. [end edit]  and the conversation turned to Digital Nomads.  Long story short.

What the Lawyer Told Me

Cutting to the chase because you have had to read a bit to get to this point.  Here are the main points

  • The person quoted in all the press statements from Immigration is a spokesperson he does not make decisions, there is another section that does this.
  • It is illegal to work in Thailand on a Tourist Visa – that’s it bottom line
  • Immigration needs to prove in court that someone is breaking the law to get them deported
  • Immigration is now actively collecting this evidence for future arrests to provide proof
  • Punspace was not a bungled misunderstanding, they knew what a nomad was, and got statements as evidence
  • Immigration’s investigators are likely to have joined and monitoring Facebook groups and nomad forums to ‘watch & record’
  • Not every Digital Nomad needs to be worried

Obviously I was greatly disturbed by this.  I am a member of this community and as much as I care for your safety and well-being, – you lot and your friends are my customer base.  My lawyer said that not all hope was lost, Immigration were targeting specific criteria, and while technically illegal to work in Thailand at all without a work permit;  For now, Immigration are not concerned with the average digital nomad working while they travel. :By average” they are referring to the nomad with a 3 month stay in Thailand on their way to other places.

I wanted confirmation of this and had my staff call [edit] My staff members associations with the Immigration office were provided to establish credibility.  This has been removed as it could potential create problems in the future. The basic gist was I was trying to arrange a meeting) [end edit]

The Nomads being Targeted

There is bad news: It is illegal to work in Thailand on a Tourist Visa. It does not matter if your company is in another country or you are not taking work away from Thai people, or selling products in Thailand, or working for a foreign company selling to a foreign company.  A Tourist Visa is for a holiday.  If you intend to work while you are in the Kingdom of Thailand you do not come on a Tourist Visa legally stating on the application that you will not be working. If you are making an income or exchanging your time for a potential income – YOU ARE WORKING!

And good news:  For now only specific people are going to have a problem. Local Immigration officers are fully aware of what a nomad is and how we contribute to the economy.  Immigrations major concern is to remove undesirable elements from Thailand.  This is one of the major reasons the Visa run of the past has been shut down.  The thinking is, if you can not afford to leave the country and obtain a Visa to return, you are not contributing to the ‘Happiness of Thailand”.  In other words, your poor – go away.  By the same token, if you are making money and living here long term, but are not paying the required fees to obtain a Work permit – you are not contributing to the ‘Happiness of Thailand”

What is the criteria Immigration investigators are concerned about?

  • Anyone working from anything that can be defined as a ‘Office”.  This includes condos converted into Offices (as in the Skype English Teachers) and spaces deemed to look like an Office (rented enclosed working spaces in coworking spaces) and actual rented Offices
  • Anyone who publicly states they are working in Thailand as a digital nomad without a work permit. Investigators are looking at Forums, Facebook groups, Nomad seminars with a fee, and personal blogs – and collecting evidence

What are Immigration investigators not concerned about?

  • Visitors who are holidaying in Thailand as part of an extended overseas vacation
  • People working from inside their own condo or apartment
  • People working in open cafe (something that does not resemble an office)
  • People without a history of living here repeatedly
  • People who are working and not openly promoting they are breaking the laws of the Kingdom of Thailand.

[hr]

What happens if you are arrested?

Section 54 of the Immigration Act

In case there is an order of deportation for the alien; while waiting for the alien to be deported the competent official may order the alien to stay at any prescribed place or he may order the alien to report to him ( competent official ) according to a prescribed date, time ,and place with Security or with Security and Bond. The competent official may also detain the alien at any given place as many be necessary.

Immigration may hold you for 48 hours to complete their investigation and then further extend this to 7 days if need be. Any detention longer than 7 days must be approved by a court. Hence you are more likely than not to appear before a judge within 7 days after being arrested.The expense of detention and deportation will be charged to the person involved.

If you are arrested, you will be taken to Immigration, who will cross reference you to the information they are collecting.  If you are on the suspect list, it will be assured this time they will have the evidence to take the matter further. (if they decide to). They are collecting information from Blogs, Facebook posts and other sources we like to chat in. You will be given time to arrange for legal representative, and contact your Embassy; but Immigration have the right to detain you in a location of their choosing.  This maybe in locally, in Bangkok or they may let you return to your place of residence.

It is likely based on the history with over stayer, if you can show the means to leave, you will be released and given the ‘opportunity’ to leave the country.  BUT If you have ever watched Thai news on TV or read the papers; Thai authorities love to parade their good deeds in the media. Not only parade them but as in the case of the English lessons via Skype, they justify with exaggerated claims it was a “spy training ring

[hr]

What is the Chance of anything happening?

I freely acknowledge, that I, like everyone (except a few people within Chiang Mai Immigration) have no idea what might or might not happen. This matter is of concern to me because it at the base level affects my bottom-line.  Nomads are my income base, and I have no intention of wanting to scare anyone away from Chiang Mai.

Best that can be done at this point is to examine what is known, what is uncertain (and define it as uncertain) and what is known to be myth. For me, just 1 day ago I was saying any threat of Immigration deporting digital nomads was a myth.

Now I know this is not the case.  But luckily it is not every nomad, and you can easily avoid any risk by following a few common sense decisions. Sadly it would seem the people who are openly and actively promoting Chiang Mai as the place for Nomads to come, are most affected.

Here is what is known:

  • It is Illegal to work here on a Tourist Visa.  That’s it bottom line.  This is the Law, even if it is a law that has not kept up to date relating to digital nomads.  Even if it is a law that has not been actively enforced for whatever reasons. Even if it will damage the economy of Chiang Mai – this is the law as it stands and at any time it can be enforced.
  • Immigration has stated that the single entry Visa tourist who works from home, or a cafe or a coworking space in an open area is not of concern to them and should not have any problems.
  • Most of the information that we are using to base our decisions on are cherry picked from articles, misquoted, or from people guessing.  Repeated misinformation does not make it true, no matter how many people want to think it is.
  • Most of what you read, including previous comments I have made is copied and pasted wishful thinking
  • Chiang Mai Immigration are conducting further investigations.  They are monitoring and collecting information on people who are openly sharing that information online.
  • Immigration is collecting evidence in order to be prepared to prosecute and deport aliens they feel are a detriment to Thailand.
  • Immigration knew what they where doing when they raided Punspace.
  • Punspace, and other coworking spaces are going to be visited again.  It is possible that only those people in ‘offices’ will be detained, it is possible their will be a list of people being looked for, it is possible it is a scare tactic
  • Immigration have names and details of high profile people openly advertising they are earning money while living in Thailand

Here is what is Unknown

  • If digital nomads is a priority for the new government (Army) or local Chiang Mai Immigration
  • If this is a nationwide thing or just a concern for Chiang Mai
  • If this is a national policy or instigated by one member of the local Chiang Mai office
  • If any real action will be taken on the information gained from Immigrations ‘ongoing investigations’
  • If Nomads under the “no concern” position of the spokesman comments, is real policy.
  • If digital nomads have any official status (negative or positive) with Immigration
  • If a case can be put forward on our behalf by local Thai business people
  • If this is a real threat or just posturing for publicity

[hr]

What can be done?

Latest update: You can get a volunteer work permit for 30,000 baht for web based services.  And other type of Visas

Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit

[hr]

Conclusion

 

The bottom line is ….

1) It IS illegal to work here on a Tourist Visa – get this stuck in your head. There are no special circumstances or exceptions!

2) Immigration spokespeople have stated that they are unconcerned with enforcing this for the vast majority of digital nomads passing through Thailand on a Tourist Visa. (and maybe those living here quietly)

3) Immigration are conducting further investigations and have a criteria they are looking for that make us a possible risk

a) Working from something that looks like an Office.
b) Consistent long time residency in the Kingdom of Thailand on Tourist Visas
c) Openly flaunting you are working and living here
d) Exporting Online products that are made in Thailand (added Feb 5)

4) So far nothing has been acted upon specifically targeting digital nomads.  The Skype English teachers were targeted because they were using an Office, and possible training Chinese spies (read with unbelievable sarcasm)

[hr]

I will repeat again, the day before I investigated and wrote this, I was of the opinion that there is nothing to be concerned about with Immigration raids and being deported.  I still think this to be the case for almost all of the digital nomads living in Chiang Mai for being deported; rather fines will be levied.

I have changed my mind on the possibility of there being no further raids on coworking spaces, although I doubt will end up with any or many arrests.  I am certain (as I can be on hearsay) that investigations and information collection is happening; weather anything will come of it, I have no clue.  I would love to think (maybe hope) that through being observed, the positive light of an open and sharing community of travelers will be shown.  I would like to think that a deeper understanding of the nomad community will help lead to Visa reform.

Imagine if Thailand became the first country to accept and embrace the digital nomad movement? Imagine how much media attention and increased tourists they would get if they provided a place that supported the latest version of the entrepreneur?

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Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit