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How to ride a Motorbike in Thailand (and Survive)

How to ride a Motorbike in Thailand (and Survive) 538 218 cmbadmin

How to Survive when you ride a Motorbike in Thailand

Driving a motorbike or car in any Asian country is one of those experience that if survived becomes stories you tell your friends over a beer. In Thailand many westerners often wonder how most of the people driving managed to get a driver’s license. The reality is most of them don’t!

If you ride in Thailand you are very likely to have an accident. It happens to everyone at some point. Whether or not you survive with your life will depend greatly on following the suggestions and guidelines detailed below. I would go as far as stating … Make them your Rules!

asian driversA common mistake people make is that Asians are bad drivers. They are not. They manage to survive in a chaotic traffic system with more hazards than a reality TV show. It is more accurate to say that they are inconsiderate drivers, but even saying this is based on making false assumptions, based on western culture.

Important: Understand Thai Drivers Mindset

One of the biggest factors (in my humble opinion) that plays a part in how the Asian population drive differently is rooted in the language and lack of time tenses. Bear with me here, as your understanding of this point will allow you to remove your internal common sense expectations of how people ‘should drive’.  Your past expectations of how others should act on the road allows you to drive or ride on auto pilot.  If you do not adapt and change this assumption here in Thailand you seriously increase the risk of having an accident.

In Asian language, it is rare to define a sense of past, present or future tense. In the English language we state everything in an exact frame of time. In Thailand if someone was to say “I am a Teacher” it could mean they used to be, they are studying to be, they are currently, or they will be in the future. The language we use contributes greatly to an individual’s conscious thoughts and makes up our reality. When your primary language system does not place an emphasis on time as a major construct – your ability to grasp future consequences from a single past or present experience, is reduced.

How does the lack of ‘time’ constructs affect Thai drivers?
One of the biggest hazards you will find driving on Thai roads is that almost no one will look for on coming traffic before pulling out of a street, turning a corner or changing lanes.  If you (or I) were to turn from a side street into a major road and have an accident or near miss. Anxiety kicks in and we will adapt our behavior and in future slow down, look for on coming traffic, use your turn signals and proceed with warranted caution.

If a Thai person was to do this (and they do all the time) there conscious process (due to the lack of time concepts in the language) is … “I could have died, but I did not. I have good luck” and that is the end of it. Next time they approach the same situation the anticipation of it happening again is just not there.

Please note that this is a blatant generalization and I do not mean to apply it to every Thai person. But if you assume it does apply you will always be aware of what to look for when riding here.

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So let’s examine how to ride a motorbike in Thailand to survive.

1) Have a Safe Motorbike

Many places that rent motorbikes in Thailand are run by under paid and unskilled staff. The maintenance on the bike and especially the brakes can be lacking. Older motorbikes you hire will have a reduction in it’s ability to accelerate with speed and stop quickly.  Many places also never change the mirrors from stock which are suited to smaller framed people. The difference in rental price of an old and smaller cc rating bike compared to a new and larger engine is about 500 baht a month. Pay the extra $15 and get a good, new, bigger and safer bike. If you are in Chiang Mai, check here for exactly this

What to look for when you hire a motorbike:

125cc motorbike. Westerners are bigger and heavier and need the extra power

New vs Older Bike: Older bikes not only use more gas, they lack acceleration power and sometimes you will need it to avoid an accident.

Extended Mirror: Not many Thai people even use the mirrors. They just do not check behind them before swapping lanes. We do, make sure you can see behind you.

Check the brakes: This is an essential requirement but not one many rental places are able to comprehend the importance of.

Thicker tires: A common reason many people have accidents is when the wheel slips from under the bike when riding over sand or gravel on the road. Using a thicker wheel helps maintain stability and prevent this.

2) Wear your Helmet!!!

How to ride motorbike in Chiang MaiYou will notice that many local people and tourist do not wear helmets when riding a motorbike in Thailand. If you get stopped by the police the instant ‘gift’ fine is only 200 baht (about US $6) and it is tempting to justify ‘when in Rome….’

This abundance of freedom (that makes western road rules and law enforcement seem like a nanny state) is alluring to some.  The more adventurous (I will go as far as weak minded and easily influenced) gravitate towards experiencing this new freedom and ride without a helmet.  If you do this your an idiot – plain and simple.  Remember, chances are high that if you ride a motorbike in Thailand you are going to have an accident. Not wearing your helmet IS the difference between a few scratches and your loved ones having to arrange for your body to be shipped home.

Bear this in mind: The Thai transport cleanup crew does not like to touch internal organs (it is a cultural thing). As someone living here I can guarantee you, pieces of your brains will remain on the lamp post you hit until they dry up, rot and blow away. Try Goggling an image search ‘motorbike accidents Thailand’ to see pictures of brains and body parts splattered around the road to reinforce this point. Just wear your helmet!!!

Many people look around them and can justify not using common sense because it seems as if  ‘everyone else does it’. Despite any justifications you can tell yourself, for those people who have lived here long enough to see the result of westerners not wearing a helmet .. you might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says “I am too stupid to live” because that’s what most people are thinking when they see you.

3) Drive at a reasonable speed

We all know speed kills, this is nothing new.  It is very easy on the automatic scooters in Thailand with the room to ride through traffic to do it at speed.   I have a bigger bike, and I am constantly looking at my speed and asking myself “If I crash now will I live”? And I do this because I have seen the end result of people who are too relaxed when they ride.  You need to remember that the chances of someone else pulling out in front of you or switching lanes without looking or stopping mid traffic are many many times higher in Thailand than what you are used to in your home country.

The ability to swiftly zip in and out between cars is easy here. The motorbike gives you much more opportunity to bypass the congestion of cars in traffic. In fact doing this will become second nature to you. Just always be aware as you are riding between cars, chances are someone else will pull out in front of you as they move into the space between cars. And they will not be looking for you coming.

No one in Thailand is in a hurry. You do not need to be either.

4) Drive next to the center white line

On a two lane road, in most countries it is suggested that you ride on the left side of the lane. This is to avoid cars coming up behind you at faster speeds and being hit from behind. In Thailand this is dangerous because (not sure I mentioned this or not before) people will pull into your path without looking. They will come from the side streets on your left and pull out from parked positions from your left. Riding on the left side of the lane makes you a closer target, and gives you less room to avoid them.

Riding the center line gives you the opportunity to look ahead and see potential danger.  It also allows you to smoothly transition between and around cars on the road. Most Thai vehicle drivers will leave enough space on the left and right hand side of their vehicle for a motorbike to get by. And at stopped traffic they will usually leave room between the cars front and rear for you to zig zag your way around the cars and through traffic.

Do not ride the center line when ….

When you are on a major freeway – Freeways seldom have cross streets where someone can pull out on your left.  The cars are going faster and there is no reason for you to take up a whole lane. The far left of the road is the safest place to be.

When you are on a single and narrow road with curves you can not see around. Expect cars and motorbikes coming in the opposite direction to be in the middle of the road. Give yourself room to be out of the way.

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Other hazards to watch for

Riding a motorbike in Thailand is not a time or place you want to mentally relax and enjoy the view. You will need to be 100% consciously aware of everything happening to you and within the next 100 meters. You will soon realize once you start to ride here that things are different. The traffic while chaotic has a flow and a system about it. You will need to focus on what is ahead and anticipate several possibilities.

Lack of Accident Media Coverage:  They do not like to report in the Thai media anything that might hinder the tourist perception of Thailand. Road accidents (especially non Thai’s) are not reported so it is easy to forget that this country ranks in the top 5 of most dangerous places to ride.  Don’t let the lack of you noticing the accident rate fool you into a sense of security.

Painted Lines on the Road:  When it rains or a shop owner has washed the front of their store and the road is wet – the painted road markings become very slippery.  Avoid riding close to them and if you are turning and crossing the path of a a painted piece of road, slow down and use as gradual turn as you can manage.

Chinese Tourists:  Watch out for Chinese tourists, easily spotted because the woman on the back of the bike will have an open map and they are all over the road looking for sites to stop at. The Chinese tourists have a tendency to just stop where ever they want, including right in front of you without looking. When you spot them, move to the left or right and do not follow directly behind them

Do not look at the view:  When riding (especially in Chiang Mai) there are many things that can distract your attention. Temples are everywhere, the 3 or 4 cute child monks walking along the road. The incredibly beautiful women on the side of the road or on the motorbike next to you. The food stalls, and the Elephants and Buffalo that can be on the roads. You need to focus 100% on what might happen on the road in front of you – not how amazing everything is on the sidelines.

Gravel and sand:  One of the biggest causes of non fatal accidents in Thailand is when the motorbike wheel skids out of control and the bike skids. This usually happens when riding too close to the left side of the road or when pulling over to stop somewhere.Look out for the condition of the road and especially watch out for sand and gravel on the sides of the road and entrance ways to parking lots.  A lot of sand or stones tends to be safer than just a little bit.  Be careful either way.

sand on roads in Chiang Mai

Sand and gravel on the side of the road, a sure fire way to topple your motorbike

Use your Mirrors:  Thai people as a rule do not use them. You should monitor behind you on a regular occasion. But also be aware than the person in front of you will not. They will not see you coming if you decide to pass them. Give yourself enough space to avoid them moving directly into you as your passing.

Do not assume green means GO:  The general rule seems to be a yellow light means speed up, and when the red light turns on it means the 5th car behind you will have to stop – but you are OK to go.   Again no one looks, they will keep going through a red light. If you are in the front of the cue and the light turns green, just look and make sure no one is coming. Chances are they will be.

Lane changing without turn signals. It is very common for both car drivers and motorbike riders to change lanes without signaling. For the motorbike rider you are constantly swapping lanes and driving between cars because you can. Often the blinker light will stay on because the turn was not sufficient to auto switch off, and it becomes easier to not use the indicators for lane changes.  Cars will often switch lanes or just drive in the middle of one for a while and then move over.Be aware that anyone in front of you or to your side can and probably will move without looking or warning.

Song Thao Stopping mid street to pick up pedestrian

Song Thao Stopping mid street to pick up pedestrian

Tuk Tuk’s and Songthaews:  These will stop anywhere suddenly to pick up passengers. If you see a Tuk Tuk ahead of you that is empty expect it to stop suddenly or slow every time it passes people on the side of the road. The same is true for the two row trucks (Songthaews). Often the reason cars are driving in the middle of the road or traffic comes to a stop is because of the public transportation.

Police:  Not sticky a hazard, the police in Thailand do not get paid much, and it is common for them to supplement their income with ‘instant fines’ at road side check points.  Westerners are targeted simply because we have money and are likely to be breaking the law.

thai police checkpointNot wearing a helmet is an instant 200 baht fine (US $6), not having a valid drivers license 400 baht.  Possession of drugs – instant jail for a very very long time.  The police will usually ask for more, but these figures are usually accepted unless you have a wallet full of cash.

Police checkpoints are just part of the scenery here, and after the Coup more common.  You will no doubt feel indignant and feel like you are being singled out – smile politely admit your wrong doing, apologize and bear it.

Western Attitude: We in the west have a culture that inflates our perception of our own importance and rights.  As such we naturally tend to take almost anything as an attack on our sense of ego, and we attempt to defend ourselves.  In Thailand, this attitude is seen as a sign of an immoral and disgusting person.  Here you do what you can to avoid losing face (embarrassing yourself or others).  Raising your voice, disputing statements made (calling someone a lair) pointing, arguing etc are all behaviors that quickly erode any respect Thai people will give you.  And they show their contempt by smiling and laughing (they will not lose face displaying conflict or anger).

If you are pulled over at a check point, or involved in an accident, or have someone cut you off, your fault or theirs the response is always the same.  You politely nod your head (to younger people) or perform a Wai (hands to the head and bow) to older people or officials and say “Mai Ben Rai”. This roughly translate to No problem, No worries, It is OK, and once it is spoken, it ends the matter.

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Can Digital Nomads work in Thailand on Tourist Visa

Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand?

Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand? 538 218 cmbadmin

There has been a lot of speculation and opinions concerning the question can a digital nomad can work in Chiang Mai, while staying in Thailand on a tourist Visa. The opinions and answers to this matter range from “yes” to “yes BUT” to “No”. Let’s clear up all the myths and misinformation because the reality is, that most of what people are hearing, repeating and sharing is wrong

My own opinion has run the gambit, starting in the flat out “No” camp and then started to read articles online and was influenced by people who appeared to know more than I did; (or at least claim with a confident sense of authority). For example this article by jonez450reloaded sounded impressive and I followed the links that were cited. The article changed my mind to the “It’s fine and O.K. to work as a nomad on a Tourist Visa” view point.  I did not bother to read the whole articles and just skimmed the headlines.  Big Mistake!

A meeting with my Lawyer regarding my own Thai company reveal my views were based on cherry picked knowledge (oh boy I was wrong again).  I decided to follow-up on this because he was of the opinion coworking spaces are on the target list of local Immigration as are some digital nomads.  It did not take too much effort to find that much of the advice and opinions given by the nomad community about this topic have come from distortions of quotes in original sources, or taken from newspaper reports quoting people essentially saying “I don’t know but I think …”

Let’s take a skeptical look at where our information is coming from and examine what is real and what is wishful thinking.

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Update: 5th Feb

This update information comes from a coworking space owner who has a vested interest in Nomads. Unfortunately (again) not prepared to go on the record officially or have themselves identified. Following up on my inquiry to them before this post was made they have said … Immigration have informed them …

  • They are not interested in digital nomads in particular but they are looking for foreigners that do illegal work like selling/exporting goods from Thailand online eg. Selling Thai made Furniture from Baan Tawai Market online.
  • Immigration said because they are under the military internal security act, they are forced by the military to be more strict.
  • They suspect foreigners that stay in Thailand for a long time go to work at the same place.
  • Coworking spaces are consider in the same group as Cafes and safe to work from.
  • No one is going to get deported
  • It is not just Immigration who decide to go on a Raid. It is also other departments such as Police and Military

Question and Think

What does this new Information mean?

This updated information does not really provide any new details except

1) Immigration is not the single authority who decides what and when to raid places.
2) Added hearsay credibility to the no one will be deported knowledge base

The same texts (info obtained via facebook chat) have been sent to others who have also blogged about it coming to different conclusions.  I know that the tone of my post is cautious and others paint a more upbeat position.

For a balanced view, between the overly cautious and upbeat check the Hobo with a laptop link at the end of this post

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In a Nutshell

Conclusion In a Nutshell: Can a Digital Nomad Work in Chiang Mai, Thailand?

  • It is Illegal to work as a digital nomad on a tourist visa
  • Immigration say they are not concerned with Nomads working at home, at cafe or on their first (possible 2nd) Tourist Visa
  • Immigration appear to be concerned with Nomads (or anyone) using multiple Tourist Visas and using ‘Offices’ (essentially not a Tourist but living here)
  • Immigration are concerned with Nomads (or anyone) promoting they are working and making money in Thailand without a Work Permit.
  • Almost all opinions shared by the community come from repeating misquoted or cherry picking original sources
  • Chiang Mai Immigration are still actively investigating and collecting evidence
  • It seems only nomads fitting a certain profile are at risk

It is important to note that sources I have obtained my information from have said nothing officially.  This information is admittedly given as hearsay from me to blog post.  But, (and it is an important but) – This information comes from people working in the legal and immigration systems in Chiang Mai.
Let’s be realistic from the start, why would anyone go on record placing themselves in the hot seat for a ‘blog post’? 

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Let’s examine how we are getting incorrect Information

Cherry Picking Facts!  As is often the case on the internet, the news report linked in the post by people to support their opinions are often wrong.  In the case of jonez450reloaded, in which he concludes digital nomads can work in Thailand … “There’s no grey area, the answer is yes. You don’t have to believe me: Immigration has said so. That article links to a story at Chiang Mai City News quoting Pol. Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkun, Superintendent of Chiang Mai Immigration who is paraphrased as saying

“If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.”

In Reality
The first article actually reported in the Asian Correspondent quotes quoting Pol. Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkun as

“Generally speaking, to work in Thailand, foreigners should hold non-immigrant B visas and must obtain work permits from their employers. However, the increasing number of people working online does not fit into any neat visa category”.

The second article in Chiang Mai News, is referring to the Aug 20th meeting organized by the Chamber of Commerce.  This meeting was mostly aimed at Expats, Business and Retired people.  In this article the reporter gives the paraphrased response.

“If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.”

This one sentence is NOT what Immigration spokespeople said, this is a reporter giving her opinion of what was said.  Does this matter?  Hell yes!  There is more to the story.  This was an off the cuff comment made by a spokesperson, referring to the change in visitor demographics and his opinion.  Granted his opinion is more valid than yours or mine – but it is not the complete story.

In the Beginning

Thai Immigration Law

Thai Law which clearly and definitely says … You can not undertake any work in Thailand while you are here on a Tourist Visa.  This is clearly written on every single Visa application form, in the details about filling in the form, on any website dealing with immigration assistance.  This is not a grey area at all.  People can ‘hope’ that the new paradigm of the Digital Nomad means countries will have to adapt their immigration laws to cope with it. Hoping and wishing does not mean it is true.  To be fair to Chiang Mai Immigration, they have stated they are not concerned with enforcing the law for most digital nomads here on a Tourist Visa.  But as you will see further down – not all nomads are safe!

The PunSpace Raid

Can Digital Nomads work in Thailand

On October 1st 2014 PunSpace (a coworking place), was raided as reported by telecomasia.net as a “bungled raid on a digital nomad co-working space in the northern city of Chiang Mai”:  One of the 18 (some reports say 11) people detained was well known nomad and Chiang Mai resident Johnny FD. Johnny informed a concerned nomad community what was happening with his blog about the situation with regular updates. Much of the guessing and speculation began here in the comments about Johnny’s attempt to report what was happening. Much of the theories and opinions where based around there being no charges laid, and everyone being released.

Because no one was charged speculation went from ‘bungled’ headlines to ‘everything is fine, they just did not understand what a digital nomad was’.  My research suggest in fact Immigration know exactly what a digital nomad is. The often online repeated statement “They did not know what a digital nomad was’ came from this news report which quotes a staff member of Punspace who actually said

““The soldiers asked ‘what are these farang (foreigners) doing here?’ They didn’t know what we are”. 

Let’s examine this more ….  A Punspace staff member was talking to a soldiers (the hired guns) not to Immigration personal.  The same newspaper report in the next paragraph states plainly

“An immigration official refused to answer questions about the raid, but confirmed they were monitoring places like Punspace “with lots of farang” as part of an ongoing investigation.”

The major impression we are given as a result of this raid is that Immigration did not know what a digital nomad was.  The factual reality is that Immigration declined to justify the reasons for the raid, but stated they are continuing to investigate.  These two conclusions are not the same thing.

The English Teacher Raid

17 Foreigners Arrested for Teaching Illegally in Chiang Mai

On January 23rd 2015 at 12.30am, Chiang Mai Immigration raided a modified office room in the ground floor of Riverside Condo on Chiang Mai-Lamphun Road and detained 17 foreigners, who were teaching English on Skype. The raid as reported by Bangkok Post has been copied and pasted and commented upon in online forums all over Chiang Mai and Thailand, with the usual speculations and opinions being expressed about the whys and whats of working in Thailand.

All 17 foreigners were taken to Mae Ping police station to be prosecuted, and their passports and laptops were seized. The were held for 8 hours before being release.  Prosecutions are intended for each of them, but as of yet I could not determine how many would be charged and deported.

Interestingly while this is simply a breach of the law, Chiang Mai News reported Officials saying they believe the teachers were tutoring “Chinese Spies” and have reported the matter to Thailand’s Security Affairs Section and Chiang Mai’s Chinese Consulate.  Training Chinese Spy’s? On the ground floor of a condo unit, in plain site of everyone!  Let’s not forget we are in Thailand, and in Thailand the Farang is always wrong, no matter what the situation is.

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The Digital Nomad able to work … Speculation says ….

The information given online, in forums, by word of mouth is totally inconsistent. I admit that I gave my own impressions of what I thought the situation was as well. And my ‘opinion’ was influenced and formed with intellectual laziness.   I did not take the time to go to the source of information and in hindsight I did what every human being tends to do.  I selected the opinions of others that fitted into what I wanted or already believed – and I downplayed information that contradicted this.

Over the course of the last few months, my opinion and advice regarding our ability to work here has shifted from yes to no to yes.  Like almost everybody giving their advice, I did the best to repeat what I hoped was the situation without actually looking into the reality of the situation with any effort.

There is too many different versions of what is possible and what is not possible, but the general consensus of the majority of online commentary experts seems to be…..

1. It is illegal to work on a tourist visa

2. It is illegal to work on a tourist visa, but just do it anyway

3. It is the same thing as checking your emails or going on Facebook

4. It is not illegal to work in Thailand as long as you are not working for a Thai company, receiving pay in Thailand and the work you do is not for Thai nationals.

5. As long as you don’t actually do a job a Thai person can do Immigration have no problems, especially if it’s online

5. It’s a grey area, there are no laws regarding digital nomads working here, let’s work and wait and see

Whats the Real Story!

Background
On Friday 30th January, I went to see my Lawyer, [edit] I have removed the reasons I went to see the Lawyer as that revelation while used to give evidence of my sincerity could be used against me at a later date. [end edit]  and the conversation turned to Digital Nomads.  Long story short.

What the Lawyer Told Me

Cutting to the chase because you have had to read a bit to get to this point.  Here are the main points

  • The person quoted in all the press statements from Immigration is a spokesperson he does not make decisions, there is another section that does this.
  • It is illegal to work in Thailand on a Tourist Visa – that’s it bottom line
  • Immigration needs to prove in court that someone is breaking the law to get them deported
  • Immigration is now actively collecting this evidence for future arrests to provide proof
  • Punspace was not a bungled misunderstanding, they knew what a nomad was, and got statements as evidence
  • Immigration’s investigators are likely to have joined and monitoring Facebook groups and nomad forums to ‘watch & record’
  • Not every Digital Nomad needs to be worried

Obviously I was greatly disturbed by this.  I am a member of this community and as much as I care for your safety and well-being, – you lot and your friends are my customer base.  My lawyer said that not all hope was lost, Immigration were targeting specific criteria, and while technically illegal to work in Thailand at all without a work permit;  For now, Immigration are not concerned with the average digital nomad working while they travel. :By average” they are referring to the nomad with a 3 month stay in Thailand on their way to other places.

I wanted confirmation of this and had my staff call [edit] My staff members associations with the Immigration office were provided to establish credibility.  This has been removed as it could potential create problems in the future. The basic gist was I was trying to arrange a meeting) [end edit]

The Nomads being Targeted

There is bad news: It is illegal to work in Thailand on a Tourist Visa. It does not matter if your company is in another country or you are not taking work away from Thai people, or selling products in Thailand, or working for a foreign company selling to a foreign company.  A Tourist Visa is for a holiday.  If you intend to work while you are in the Kingdom of Thailand you do not come on a Tourist Visa legally stating on the application that you will not be working. If you are making an income or exchanging your time for a potential income – YOU ARE WORKING!

And good news:  For now only specific people are going to have a problem. Local Immigration officers are fully aware of what a nomad is and how we contribute to the economy.  Immigrations major concern is to remove undesirable elements from Thailand.  This is one of the major reasons the Visa run of the past has been shut down.  The thinking is, if you can not afford to leave the country and obtain a Visa to return, you are not contributing to the ‘Happiness of Thailand”.  In other words, your poor – go away.  By the same token, if you are making money and living here long term, but are not paying the required fees to obtain a Work permit – you are not contributing to the ‘Happiness of Thailand”

What is the criteria Immigration investigators are concerned about?

  • Anyone working from anything that can be defined as a ‘Office”.  This includes condos converted into Offices (as in the Skype English Teachers) and spaces deemed to look like an Office (rented enclosed working spaces in coworking spaces) and actual rented Offices
  • Anyone who publicly states they are working in Thailand as a digital nomad without a work permit. Investigators are looking at Forums, Facebook groups, Nomad seminars with a fee, and personal blogs – and collecting evidence

What are Immigration investigators not concerned about?

  • Visitors who are holidaying in Thailand as part of an extended overseas vacation
  • People working from inside their own condo or apartment
  • People working in open cafe (something that does not resemble an office)
  • People without a history of living here repeatedly
  • People who are working and not openly promoting they are breaking the laws of the Kingdom of Thailand.

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What happens if you are arrested?

Section 54 of the Immigration Act

In case there is an order of deportation for the alien; while waiting for the alien to be deported the competent official may order the alien to stay at any prescribed place or he may order the alien to report to him ( competent official ) according to a prescribed date, time ,and place with Security or with Security and Bond. The competent official may also detain the alien at any given place as many be necessary.

Immigration may hold you for 48 hours to complete their investigation and then further extend this to 7 days if need be. Any detention longer than 7 days must be approved by a court. Hence you are more likely than not to appear before a judge within 7 days after being arrested.The expense of detention and deportation will be charged to the person involved.

If you are arrested, you will be taken to Immigration, who will cross reference you to the information they are collecting.  If you are on the suspect list, it will be assured this time they will have the evidence to take the matter further. (if they decide to). They are collecting information from Blogs, Facebook posts and other sources we like to chat in. You will be given time to arrange for legal representative, and contact your Embassy; but Immigration have the right to detain you in a location of their choosing.  This maybe in locally, in Bangkok or they may let you return to your place of residence.

It is likely based on the history with over stayer, if you can show the means to leave, you will be released and given the ‘opportunity’ to leave the country.  BUT If you have ever watched Thai news on TV or read the papers; Thai authorities love to parade their good deeds in the media. Not only parade them but as in the case of the English lessons via Skype, they justify with exaggerated claims it was a “spy training ring

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What is the Chance of anything happening?

I freely acknowledge, that I, like everyone (except a few people within Chiang Mai Immigration) have no idea what might or might not happen. This matter is of concern to me because it at the base level affects my bottom-line.  Nomads are my income base, and I have no intention of wanting to scare anyone away from Chiang Mai.

Best that can be done at this point is to examine what is known, what is uncertain (and define it as uncertain) and what is known to be myth. For me, just 1 day ago I was saying any threat of Immigration deporting digital nomads was a myth.

Now I know this is not the case.  But luckily it is not every nomad, and you can easily avoid any risk by following a few common sense decisions. Sadly it would seem the people who are openly and actively promoting Chiang Mai as the place for Nomads to come, are most affected.

Here is what is known:

  • It is Illegal to work here on a Tourist Visa.  That’s it bottom line.  This is the Law, even if it is a law that has not kept up to date relating to digital nomads.  Even if it is a law that has not been actively enforced for whatever reasons. Even if it will damage the economy of Chiang Mai – this is the law as it stands and at any time it can be enforced.
  • Immigration has stated that the single entry Visa tourist who works from home, or a cafe or a coworking space in an open area is not of concern to them and should not have any problems.
  • Most of the information that we are using to base our decisions on are cherry picked from articles, misquoted, or from people guessing.  Repeated misinformation does not make it true, no matter how many people want to think it is.
  • Most of what you read, including previous comments I have made is copied and pasted wishful thinking
  • Chiang Mai Immigration are conducting further investigations.  They are monitoring and collecting information on people who are openly sharing that information online.
  • Immigration is collecting evidence in order to be prepared to prosecute and deport aliens they feel are a detriment to Thailand.
  • Immigration knew what they where doing when they raided Punspace.
  • Punspace, and other coworking spaces are going to be visited again.  It is possible that only those people in ‘offices’ will be detained, it is possible their will be a list of people being looked for, it is possible it is a scare tactic
  • Immigration have names and details of high profile people openly advertising they are earning money while living in Thailand

Here is what is Unknown

  • If digital nomads is a priority for the new government (Army) or local Chiang Mai Immigration
  • If this is a nationwide thing or just a concern for Chiang Mai
  • If this is a national policy or instigated by one member of the local Chiang Mai office
  • If any real action will be taken on the information gained from Immigrations ‘ongoing investigations’
  • If Nomads under the “no concern” position of the spokesman comments, is real policy.
  • If digital nomads have any official status (negative or positive) with Immigration
  • If a case can be put forward on our behalf by local Thai business people
  • If this is a real threat or just posturing for publicity

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What can be done?

Latest update: You can get a volunteer work permit for 30,000 baht for web based services.  And other type of Visas

Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit

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Conclusion

 

The bottom line is ….

1) It IS illegal to work here on a Tourist Visa – get this stuck in your head. There are no special circumstances or exceptions!

2) Immigration spokespeople have stated that they are unconcerned with enforcing this for the vast majority of digital nomads passing through Thailand on a Tourist Visa. (and maybe those living here quietly)

3) Immigration are conducting further investigations and have a criteria they are looking for that make us a possible risk

a) Working from something that looks like an Office.
b) Consistent long time residency in the Kingdom of Thailand on Tourist Visas
c) Openly flaunting you are working and living here
d) Exporting Online products that are made in Thailand (added Feb 5)

4) So far nothing has been acted upon specifically targeting digital nomads.  The Skype English teachers were targeted because they were using an Office, and possible training Chinese spies (read with unbelievable sarcasm)

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I will repeat again, the day before I investigated and wrote this, I was of the opinion that there is nothing to be concerned about with Immigration raids and being deported.  I still think this to be the case for almost all of the digital nomads living in Chiang Mai for being deported; rather fines will be levied.

I have changed my mind on the possibility of there being no further raids on coworking spaces, although I doubt will end up with any or many arrests.  I am certain (as I can be on hearsay) that investigations and information collection is happening; weather anything will come of it, I have no clue.  I would love to think (maybe hope) that through being observed, the positive light of an open and sharing community of travelers will be shown.  I would like to think that a deeper understanding of the nomad community will help lead to Visa reform.

Imagine if Thailand became the first country to accept and embrace the digital nomad movement? Imagine how much media attention and increased tourists they would get if they provided a place that supported the latest version of the entrepreneur?

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Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit

Getting a retirement Visa Thailand

How to get a Retirement Visa in Thailand

How to get a Retirement Visa in Thailand 538 218 cmbadmin

Thai Visa: How to Retire in Thailand

Chiang Mai, Thailand has for many years been one of the world’s top locations for Expats around the world to look at for retirement living.  The cost of living here is one of the cheapest in the world (great if you are surviving on a pension) – yet this modern northern city also provides all the benefits and luxuries you will find at home.  Chiang Mai is an exciting and vibrant city that you come to live the rest of your life, filling it with as much excitement and adventure, or opportunities to relax and enjoy as you choose.

Click here to get an idea of how far your dollar will go in Chiang Mai

Click here for information on other types of Visas (Not Retirement)

Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit

How to get a Retirement Visa to retire and live in Thailand

Obtaining a retirement Visa to come and live in Chiang Mai (or anywhere in Thailand) is still a pretty cheap and easy experience.  You can apply both within Thailand (changing your tourist Visa after deciding Chiang Mai is the place for you) or apply before you come from your home country.

In a NutshellIn a Nutshell to qualify for a Retirement Visa

50 years of age
Passport with 18 months left before expiring
Proof of Funds 800,000 Baht or US$ 25,000 or
Proof of income 60,000 a month or US$2,000
Fee 1900 Baht

N.B. It is often easier to get your Visa from your home countries consulate

 

Lets now look at some of the detailed requirements and process to apply for your Retirement Visa. At the beginning it can look like quite a bit of documentation, but as you go through the list and select which options apply for you, it will become less confusing.

Update:  Immigration Meeting at the Chiang Mai Expats Club
On 22 October, 2014 senior members of the Chiang Mai Immigration Department spoke at the monthly meeting of the Chiang Mai Expats Club (CEC) at Le Meridian Hotel. The Immigration officials developed a thorough presentation of the regulations concerning retirement visas and extensions, re-entry permits, 90-day reports, workload at the local office and other matters of interest to CEC members.

Video Topic Time Selection

0.00-7.00 Introduction  |  7.00-13.30 Retirement Visa  |  13.30- 17.15 Dependents (Spouse)  |  17.15-20.05 Change of Status  |  20.05-21.35 Re-Entry Permits  |  21.35-29.45 90 Day Reporting  |  29.35-35.30 Applying for an O Visa  |  35.30-fin  Immigration Work load


Video Via Chiang Mai Expats Club

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Retirement Visa

Requirements for a Non Immigrant Visa ‘O-A” (Retirement)

  • Must be 50 years of age or over.
  • Passport (must have at least 1 year (18 months preferred) remaining until it expires
  • Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.
  • Holding the nationality or permanent residence of country of application
  • Proof of Financial requirement
  • Letter from Bank showing proof of deposits
  • Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited (including volunteer work).

Eligibility for Retirement Visa

  • Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application).
  • Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).
  • Having no criminal record in Thailand or in the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.
  • Not having prohibitive diseases ( Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No 14  B.E. 2535.
  • You must have at least 18 months validity on your current Passport

Documents Required for your 1st Visa

If applying from outside Thailand you may need 4 copies.  If applying from inside Thailand you may only need 1 or 2 copies

A – Application For VISA form TM 7   (Original + 4 copies)

B – Photo’s – (Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo). They never check the photo for signature, but it is the law.

C – Copies of your  Passport (every page)  Sign every page

D – Copies of Personal Data Form – Click Here to Download Form

E – Copies of  Bank statement.    Deposit verification letter from your bank (if already here) stating the balance of your savings account (800,000 Baht). Normal cost about 100 to 200 baht.  This letter must not be older than 7 days.
OR
A Notarized Affidavit of Income from your Embassy,  with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht (US cost  ($50)  US Form download form.  This form can not be older than 6 months
OR
Combination of Bank Account and Income over 12 months = 800,000 Baht
OR
If you are married to a Thai National you need an Income Certificate with a monthly salary of no less than 40,000 Baht.  A Thai Bank account showing a reasonable amount is also required.

If you are applying using 800,000 Baht+ to meet financial resources:

a. First (Initial) Application – Needs to show funds have been on deposit at least 2 months before applying.
b. Subsequent (renewal) Application – Needs to show funds have been on deposit for at least 3 months before applying.

F – 4 copies of Police Clearance (Must be notarized) Stating the applicant has no criminal record (issued by the authority concerned of his/her nationality or residence. The verification must be no older than 3 months.  This Police Clearance applies only when applying from outside of Thailand and is not required when applying from here

G – 4 copies of a Medical Certificate.   When Issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) (Leprosy, Tuberculosis [T.B], Elephantiasis, Drug addiction, Alcoholism, 3rd step of syphilis) with the name and address of the doctor. (the certificate must be valid no more than 3
months)

NOTE:
1) Medical Certificate – This is not required if the VISA is applied for or accomplished inside Thailand

2) If you are applying for your first retirement VISA in Thailand, you will first be issued an “O” VISA.  Then you return to immigration 3 months later, with the same paperwork, to get an “OA” VISA

3) The marriage certificate must be presented as evidence if the applicant wishes to have his/ her spouse stay together in the Kingdom. But if his /her spouse is not qualified for the retirement VISA the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Resident

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Re-Entry Permits (Single 1000 Baht, Multiply 3800 Baht)

When you arrive in Thailand your Retirement Visa is good for one year (requiring 90 day reporting). Often you might want to use Thailand as your base and travel to other parts of Asia, or be able to return home in case of emergencies or special events.  Leaving the country without obtaining a re-entry permit will make your Visa void, and you will have to apply again.

You can apply for a re-entry permit (single or multiply) when you apply for your retirement Visa, or during your stay here in Thailand.

Documents Required for Re-Entry Permit to Thailand

  • Form TM8
  • First page of  Passport showing picture
  • Passport page showing latest VISA stamp
  • Passport page showing expiration date of passport
  • Copy of Arrival Card (your passport may have the Departure Card)
  • 1 photo – Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo

NOTE:  A Multiple Entry Permit is only good until the expiration date of your current VISA.  There is not much point purchasing a multiply re-entry permit for example if you only have a few months left on your current retirement Visa and you intend to be out of the country for longer than a month.

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Now you are in Thailand, what are your Visa Obligations?

90 day Reporting

Every 90 days you will be required to check in with Immigration for your 90 day reporting.  This is essentially letting the Thai government (via Immigration Office) that you are still residing in Thailand.  If you would like go to immigration in person you can read about how to do this here

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
We can process and submit your 90 Day reporting for you, have us at Chiang Mai Buddy head down to Immigration at 6am line up for you and submit your documents.  Then just pop into the Office the next day and pick up your Passport. The process is a 5 minute trip to our office.  Fee is 500 Baht.

 

In a NutshellIn a Nutshell doing a 90 day reporting check in

Form TM47
First page of  Passport showing picture
Passport page showing latest VISA stamp
Passport page showing expiration date of passport (If different from 1st page)
Copy of Arrival Card (your passport may have the Departure Card)
Proof of address (Ex: copy of Rental Agreement).  Only if your last 90 day reporting was not at Chiang Mai Immigration

 

N.B Fines for not Filing a 90 Day Report (TM47)

As per the Immigration website

The notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days is in no way equivalent to a VISA extension. If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau or notifying

  • The fine for not checking in on time is 2000 baht plus 200 baht per day.
  • If a foreigner who did not make the  notification of staying over 90 days is arrested, he will be fined 4,000 baht
  • If a foreigner leaves the country and re-enters, the day count starts at 1 in every case.

For details contact 0-2285-5142, 0-2287-3101-10 ext.2262, 2263

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Extending your Retirement Visa after 1 year (1900 Baht)

Once you are here in Chiang Mai, you are going to want to stay here or at the very least spend part of your year here (maybe during the winter in your own country).  Since you already have your first retirement visa, this process is called a Visa Extensions, and follows much the same procedure as you did when originally applying (only easier)

  • If you want to extend your Visa for another year, he or she must submit a request for an extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau.
  • You must do so before the expiration date on your VISA stamp in your passport .
  • You can submit your paperwork 30 days before your Visa expires (Chiang Mai 45 days)

Documents Required for Retirement Visa Extension of Stay

A – Application For VISA form TM 7

B – One Passport Size Photo

C – Copy of your  Passport (every page)  Sign every page

D – Evidence of your address (rental agreement or Baan book)

E – Copy of  Bank statement.    Deposit verification letter from your bank (if already here) stating the balance of your savings account (800,000 Baht). Normal cost about 100 to 200 baht.  This letter must not be older than 7 days.
OR
A Notarized Affidavit of Income from your Embassy,  with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht (US cost  ($50)  US Form download form.  This form can not be older than 6 months
OR
Combination of Bank Account and Income over 12 months = 800,000 Baht
OR
If you are married to a Thai National you need an Income Certificate with a monthly salary of no less than 40,000 Baht.  A Thai Bank account showing a reasonable amount is also required.

If you are applying using 800,000 Baht+ to meet financial resources:

a. Subsequent (renewal) Application – Needs to show funds have been on deposit for at least 3 months before applying.

F – Copy of every page of your bank saving book for the past year (Sign every Page)  Some Immigration Offices may only require pages for 6 months

After you finish with the Immigration Officer, you will be directed to have your photograph taken and given a form to sign acknowledging that you understand the penalties of over staying.  The One year Extension of Stay is granted at the discretion of the immigration officer.  It is not a right, so dress well, smile and always when dealing with Thai officials be polite, calm and respectful.

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Married Couples: Documents required for a Spouse

If you are coming as a couple and both are over the age of 50, both people should apply for the retirement visa.  If the spouse will be accompanying him or her s does not qualify for the retirement visa (e.g. not age 50+ or age 50, but not enough income), the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary
Residents.  A copy of the Applicants marriage certificate (notarized) must be presented as supporting documentation.

Documents Required for Spouse:

  • VISA form TM 7
  • All the same documents you would submit for a “Retirement Visa” above
  • Plus your “Marriage Certificate” translated to Thai/English and Certified

Instead of a “Retirement Visa” the spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Resident.

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Get a Thai Visa or Work Permit

Retirement: How to Retire in Thailand

Retirement: How to Retire in Thailand cmbadmin

Everything you need to know: How to Retire in Thailand

Thailand is fast becoming the number one choice for people wanting to retire, live a quality life and have their money stretch as far as is possible so that they can enjoy life in their golden years.

Thailand is a richly diverse country, offering regions with beautiful white sand beaches to mountain forests.  Offering large cities like Bangkok to the more quiet and relaxed Chiang Mai.   The following article is how Chiang Mai Buddy can assist you in the planning and execution of retiring in Chiang Mai, Thailand, but you can still use this information as a guide to retiring anywhere in Thailand

Why Retire in Chiang Mai?

Have a look how beautiful this city is.   Video: Chiang Mai – The Beauty of Diversity – from NOXimage

Obviously we here at Chiang Mai Buddy are biased towards retiring in in Chiang Mai.  Here the temperature is cooler, the city is smaller and easier to get around, property is cheap, there is amazing gardens, Temples, arts and crafts and a general more laid back and relaxed.  No beaches here, but also not many sexpats either. Chiang Mai is a comfortable base with an airport that has several daily flights all over Thailand and to other Asian countries. It is easy to use this city as your base if you decide you want to investigate other locations in Thailand.

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retire in chiang mai thailand23 Reasons to Retire in Chiang Mai Thailand
Retire in Thailand & Live on $1000 a Month
Yes it can be done!  That’s how cheap Retirement in Chiang Mai Thailand can be.  One of the growing concerns for people approaching retirement age, is that the pension is just not enough for many people to live well in their own countries.[hr]

1) First Things First – Have you been to Thailand?

The most obviously benefit to Retiring in Thailand is that it is cheap.  But do not forget it is another country with a different culture.  The number one question you need to answer for yourself is …..

Do I like Thailand?

If you have been here for a holiday then you obviously know the answer to this question. If you are basing your entire choice of Thailand based on the internet, articles and media then you need to ensure that your expectations are as realistic as possible.  The Chiang Mai Buddy website is a good start.  Our blog posts and articles are pretty devoid of opinion and personal bias – they tend to just present the facts without attempting to color the information with a sales pitch.

Solution:

1) Come to Thailand on a Tourist Visa: Come as a Tourist and travel to a few cities you have narrowed down your selection to. Once you are here it is a simple process to apply for and get your Retirement Visa.

2) Take the Plunge: Apply for and get your Retirement Visa before you leave your own country. It is valid for a year and gives you the opportunity and freedom to base yourself in one location and visit other parts of the country. Renewing your Retirement Visa each year is easier than getting your initial one.

Considerations:

1) Less than 2% of Chiang Mai Buddies customers have decided that Chiang Mai is not the city for them.  Granted our customers have the added benefit of having friends the moment they arrive and we introduce them to other Expats and the local social community. Chiang Mai is the number one retirement city for a reason. It is a good choice to start.

2) Once you are here, any documents certified by a lawyer in your own country are useless.  The process for applying for a Retirement Visa in Thailand is different (and easier) than getting one before you arrive. In fact you do not even need to have the funds to retire.  We can provide you with an instant Retirement Visa for 35,000 Baht (includes a bank statement in your name with funds. All you need is your Passport and 2 Photos). If you have all your documentation and the money (doing it the official way) the fee is 6,000 Baht to process and obtain your Visa.

3) Book Accommodation before you Arrive.  We have an excellent selection of monthly apartments which we get for you at the same cash price as you would if you where here in person. When you order through us the Arrival Package is automatically added to your purchase, this includes picking you up from the airport, delivering you to your new temporarily home, a motorbike (if wanted) a Phone SIMcard, and of course instant access to people who know Chiang Mai.

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
If you decide to choose Chiang Mai as your base location, we are in business to help assist people come and stay – but more importantly ENJOY Chiang Mai.  Once you arrive we continue to offer services that make living in Thailand easy and stress free. Social introductions, hiring a Thai speaking person to assist you, getting bank accounts, drivers license and so much more.  You can rely on us as we teach you how to become familiar and comfortable in your new country.

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2) The Retirement Visa.

The Retirement Visa is a pretty simple and easy process (once you know what you’re doing) – but the first time it can seem like a daunting process.  You have two primary options

Retirement Visa Options:

1) Apply from your Home Country: This allows you to have your Visa in your passport and from the moment you are here you can have access to the benefit of having a retirement Visa (Bank Accounts, Drivers License etc).

2) Apply from within Thailand: This option is much less stressful, because of the easy access to Visa agencies that can take care of everything for you.  Yes there is a fee attached to having the professional look after you, but like so many other things in Thailand – the cost is small.

Qualifying for a Retirement Visa in Thailand

Requirements for a Non Immigrant Visa ‘O-A” (Retirement)

  • Must be 50 years of age or over.
  • Passport (must have at least 1 year (18 months preferred) remaining until it expires
  • Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.
  • Holding the nationality or permanent residence of country of application
  • Proof of Financial requirement
  • Letter from Bank showing proof of deposits
  • Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited (including volunteer work).

Eligibility for Retirement Visa

  • Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application).
  • Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).
  • Having no criminal record in Thailand or in the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.
  • Not having prohibitive diseases ( Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No 14  B.E. 2535.
  • You must have at least 18 months validity on your current Passport

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Retirement VisaHow to get a Retirement Visa in Thailand
Step by Step Instructions to apply for your Retirement Visa
Get all the forms, know what documents you need and gain a better understanding of how to apply for a retirement visa to come and live in Thailand

 

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Retirement Visa Considerations:

1) Thailand Immigration want to ensure that people retiring in Thailand are also bringing their money in Thailand.  Once Expats would put the required amount of money into their bank account and apply for the Visa and remove the money.  Immigration decided (not yet undated on old blog post concerning the topic) to prevent this, your financial bank deposit needs to be in the bank for a two month period prior to applying for your Retirement Visa.

Another reason for having these funds is if you are require emergency medical treatment and you do not have funds in the Bank, the hospital will not perform the required treatment.  If you do not have the funds, there are services that have accounts with the 800k in them and are converted into your name and your application is processed.  All other documentation is taken care of for you – fee is 35,000 Baht (US$1020).  You should not consider this service unless you have complete medical insurance.

2) Obtaining a Retirement Visa from a Tourist Visa, needs to be done at an Embassy outside of Thailand (unless getting the aforementioned all-inclusive package).  You will have to reenter the country with your Retirement Visa if you decide to obtain one while already being in Thailand.

3) As mentioned in No 1 of the considerations, Thai Immigration have made some major changes since 2015 – most of which are to determine that people coming to Thailand can afford to live in Thailand.  While many Expats and Retirees living in Thailand are here because they are economically in hardship, You should seriously consider coming here if you do not have and are prepared to commit to the country the required 800,000 baht.

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
We offer extensive help and assistance with Visa’s.  At Chiang Mai Buddy we do not process Visa applications ourselves, rather we work in conjunction with a few Visa companies.  This allows us to select from an unbiased position which of the various Visa companies can provide the best service for you. You pay us the same price as you would them, so you can be assured that what we offer fits into your unique situation.

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3) Cost of Living in Thailand?

While you are required to have assets each year of 800,000 baht (or 400,000 plus income of 2000 US$) in order to maintain your retirement Visa, you can live here quite comfortably for almost half of that.  The following tables come from numbeo.com and was taken from July 2015 for the City of Chiang Mai.  You can use the link to find out the costs of any other city you might be interested in.

Cost of Food in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of food in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of food in Thailand (Chiang Mai) in US Dollars

 Cost of General Living in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of General Living in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of General Living in Thailand (Chiang Mai) US Dollars

 Cost of Accommodation in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of Accommodation in Thailand (Chiang Mai)

Cost of Accommodation in Thailand (Chiang Mai) in US Dollars

Considerations for Cost of Living in Thailand:

1) Everything is much cheaper in Thailand except for imported beer, wine, and dairy products. Eating western food will cost you 2-3 times more than eating local food but is still affordable.

2) Your biggest expense will be your accommodation. In Thailand a Westerner can only own 49% of land, so unless or until you have a Thai Wife, most people choose to rent a condo or house or purchase a condo.  You can lease land that a property is located on for 30 years plus – but gifting property to dependents (unless they are Thai) is a difficult process and not worth considering for a few years after you arrive.

3) Renting a condo in the city areas will cost about the same as a 2-4 bedroom house in the countryside.  Property is incredibly cheap in comparison to the western world, but it is the location that is important.  Do not rush into getting permanent accommodation until you are familiar with the area.  Stay first for a month or so in a monthly apartment before committing to a longer term lease.

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4) Finding a Place to Live

Accommodation is very affordable in Thailand, especially in the Northern parts of the country in the cities of Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai. Even in the tourist locations of Phuket and Pattaya the cost of renting a place to live is far less than you own country.  One thing to be aware of, is that most people live in Condo’s which range in size from 30 sq m (small) to 180 sq m (3 bedroom place).  Houses of course are as small or large as they would be in any country.  The following Blog Post details the steps and procedures of how to go about renting a place of your own.

However we strongly suggest you first live in a Monthly Apartment and get to know the areas around town for a month or two before you commit to a lease.

Another problem many people face is Thai Real estate agents.  Many are great, but (and this is a generalization), many also do not comprehend or understand what you are used too or how strongly you might want what you say you want.  Countless people who want to entertain and desire a western kitchen are shown place after place without one (because Thai’s eat out).  They ability to grasp your demands for a property to qualify as something you want to look at is not great.

You can look online and find many amazing places available to rent.  Only to find when you call that they have been rented already, or that they will be available in a month only to have the existing tenant stay on.  Thai people and many Thai agents tend to just leave their property listings on websites, which can make searching on your own a frustrating experience.

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Rent or Lease Condo House Chiang MaiHow to Lease a Condo or Rent a House
Step by Step Instructions with Checklist and Suggestions
Have a detailed look at the types of places you can live and how much it will cost. Along with a checklist of things you may not have thought about – but are important.

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Except from the Article above

How much does it cost to Lease a Condo in Chiang Mai?

A 30 sq.m Condo with kitchen and modern amenities will start at around 6000 baht (US$180), increasing in size to 45 sq.m you are looking in the 9000-12000 baht range. (US$270-360) per month.  Larger 80-120 sq.m 2 bedrooms places are around 18000-25000 baht (US$549-760).  One of the first things many new arrivals notice (especially from America) is how small the condos are here compared to where they are from.  You very quickly adapt and begin to enjoy the smaller units, with less cleaning required, ease of getting around from kitchen to bathroom etc.  Price will often depend on the extra facilities of the condo, Gyms, Pools, Massage and location will all add to the price.

chiang mai condo penthouse

A 2 bedroom 100 sq.m Condo with style will cost about 20,000 per month

Chiang Mai Condo

45 sq.m modern unit will cost between 10,000-12,000 baht per month

Chiang Mai Condo for rent

A Condo like this will be about 8000 baht per month

How much does it cost to Rent a House in Chiang Mai?

Houses are available in the inner suburbs and city itself, and these tend to be older (often Thai style) and can start from as low as 5000 baht maybe 8000 baht for a two bedroom.  The further out you go the bigger and newer the houses become with more western features. Many expats decide that they want to rent a house in a Moo Baan (gated community) which are usually located in the Hang Dong and surrounding areas.  Older styled houses are found closer to the city areas (and also outside the city) which are smaller and basic sometimes with a yard, but usually close to the neighbors.

lease house chiang mai

A newer 3-4 bedroom house can be found as low as 9,000 baht but generally 15,000 plus

Rent House in Chiang Mai

Older styled houses, 1-2 bedrooms can be found from 8000 baht

Solutions for Finding Accommodation:

1) Rent a Monthly Apartment First: Many people choose to stay in a Hotel or resort for there first week and then rush into signing a lease without knowing the city.  So many people find a place close to where they first arrived in Thailand only to find later that they are miles away from the area they prefer or people they later meet.  If you are coming to Chiang Mai, we have a selection of 20 places we have selected (having looked at over 80 personally).  You can look for yourself at the Monthly Accommodation in Chiang Mai

2) Get a Western Real Estate Agent: The effort you use to find a western or western thinking real estate agent will pay you many times over in results.  Don’t worry, it will cost you nothing, agents take their payment from commission in the lease (you might pay a little more over finding a place yourself – but you do not waste your time looking at property not available)

Considerations for Finding Accommodation:

1) Many people find the idea of a smaller accommodation than they are used too, is not their first choice; until they try it.  In Thailand you just do not need to have a huge kitchen (cooking at home costs more than eating out) and lets face it when you are retired you just do not need to have all that extra room for family and friends to stay with you.

2) Renting vs Buying?  On average if you purchase a property and rent it, it might take 15-30 years before you start to get a return on your investment depending on the location.  In addition it is difficult to transfer the title of the property to someone outside of Thailand so it might just be the case that the Thai Government takes over your assets if you die.  Consider renting!  The cost is low, you have spent your life saving and buying that house, which you just sold to retire in another country.

3) Do Not … Do Not … Do Not get a place sight unseen for any reason.  It does not matter if you have fallen in love online and have decided to move to the beautiful countryside to buy a house for the person you love (and maybe not met). It does not matter what you have read online (including this website) …. maybe the only reason you would do this is if you already have a friend and you want to live close to them.  The number one reason we get customers at Chiang Mai Buddy, is because they read online somewhere how easy things where to do … abc and came here to find out this was not the case.

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
One of our prime functions is to provide budget monthly accommodation in the most desirable area of Chiang Mai.  In addition we offer our Thai staff to call and negotiate leases on your behalf (prices tend to go up if a westerner is calling) and an American owned Real Estate agent who can find you exactly what you are looking for.  In short we have all your accommodation options covered.
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5) Health Care and Insurance

As with most living costs in Thailand your medical treatment and Insurance is not only incredibly low, it is of such high standard that Thailand is a top location for Medical Holidays.  In all major cities there are Hospitals that tend to place the westerner in the priority queue (while we pay very little, we pay more than Thai’s on Social Security systems).

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Insurance in Chiang MaiHow to Find Cheap Insurance in Thailand
Learn about the different types of policies for getting Insurance in Thailand. Travel Insurance, Health Insurance, Life Insurance with an estimation of how much it is likely to cost you. Home and Content Insurance, Medical and Accident Insurance and much more

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While medical treatment and dentistry is remarkable affordable in Thailand, so to in the insurance policies that cover your costs. The major benefit of having insurance based in Thailand is that it comes with your own agent who will go and take care of everything on your behalf. This saves money!!

When a westerner is taken to hospital, or admits themselves, the assumption is that we all have financial resources in abundance.  The treatment reflects this, and more than is required is usually done.  Wonderful if you have the money, you will get treated as if you where the President and then be amazed at how little it cost you compared to home.

When you have an Insurance agent, they are called (because they are paying) and the agent will go to visit you. More importantly they will find out about your condition and tell the hospital what tests and treatments they will get paid to do.  Your Insurance agent knows what is needed and what is not and your premiums remain low because of non excessive use.  This is very important as you are older and are likely to require medical treatment more often than you used to.

Solutions for Health Care and Insurance:

1) Get Basic Travel Insurance from Home: Insurance is cheaper here, you do not need to cover yourself for everything before you come, much better to get basic flight and travel insurance for a couple of months and then purchase insurance after you are in Thailand.

2) Register with a Local Hospital: Each Hospital has a membership or registration card – get one.  It costs nothing or very little and contains your history and can have our medical records transferred from your home country.

Considerations for Health Care and Insurance:

1) Driving in Thailand is a completely different set of mental dynamics.  If you are going to ride a motorcycle here, the long and short of it is, at some point you will have an accident.  It pays to have insurance because no matter who is or was at fault it is ALWAYS the Westerner who will end up paying.  Local Insurance covered both you, and the other person for medical bills and replacement of the bike

2) The last thing you want if you are in Hospital in Thailand is someone from your home countries Insurance company trying to speak to someone who may or may not speak English to discuss payment and treatment.  In fact usually you are required to pay cash and claim later.  If you are living here – don’t rely on insurance from another country – no matter how good your past history with them has been.

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
If you are planning on Retiring in Chiang Mai, we have extensively searched and found the best providers we can find with our local knowledge.  This includes a wonderful Insurance agent who can find a policy to meet almost any budget.  Let us provide you with an introduction to this agent who has national and multinational insurance policies she can provide at low prices.
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5) Social Life and Friends

Of course it goes without saying that a major component of how much you enjoy life, is who you have to enjoy it with.  The Expat community is large in Thailand and almost every city will have an Expat Club, Facebook groups for Expats, Retirees and generally what is happening in your chosen city.

Unless you are wanting to disappear and avoid people, you would do well to join and check out a few Facebook groups in the cities you are thinking about and the Number One forum website ThaiVisa.com 

It is a mistake to come solely because you have fallen in love online.  It is even more of a mistake to decide to live in a rural province because your new girlfriend wants you to be close to her family.  You are going to miss the comforts and security of the familiar – even if this is just hearing the same types of accents you have done in the past.

Make sure that there is a community that reflects what you are used too.  If you are Greek, see if there are Greek people who meet and organize events. Same for German, Dutch and so on.  Most retirees in Thailand are American, British and Australians.  In some regions in South of Thailand there is a big Russian element, but not so much up in the Northern parts.

Considerations for Social Life and Friends

1) If you have been to Thailand and/or have friends here already, this is less of a problem.  If you belong to a smaller community and your own food, music and traditions are important to you, it would pay to investigate where there is already a community of people like yourself.

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
We have as part of our service an Expat Relocation Tour, which shows you the places to shop, get medicines, eat and drink with other people also here in Chiang Mai.  In addition our Facebook Page, lists events from all over Chiang Mai to inform you what is happening.  And we of course have the occasional dinner party inviting our old and new customers to meet socially.
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Conclusion

Thailand is a wonderful place to retire, with Chiang Mai being the most popular location for many people. If you wish to consider Chiang Mai as a location, we here at Chiang Mai Buddy offer a range of affordable services to make this as easy and as stress free as possible.

[blog_posts count=”10″ post_category=”Expat Retire” title=”Further Articles on Retiring in Thailand” link_text=”Read More” character_count=”115″ layout=”default” excluded_cat=””]

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How to do Thai Visa run to Vientiane Laos

How to do Thai Visa run to Vientiane Laos cmbadmin

How to do: Thai Visa run to Vientiane, Laos

Step by step instructions, photos and the costs involved to get a Visa from the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos

Going to Vientiane in Laos is by far and away the most common Visa Run used by people wishing to extend their stay in Thailand. This article will deal mostly with folks wanting to do this trip from Chiang Mai, but equally as easy is flying from Bangkok direct to Vientiane.

After nearly 20 ‘how to’ blog posts at Chiang Mai Buddy, this is the first time I am going to interject my personal opinion – rather than attempt to just give the facts.  If you are an older person, or over 6 foot, or find it difficult to sleep in minivans or seated up-right … or unless you are absolutely broke and on a budget – TAKE A PLANE!  I have done this Visa Run 2 times now over the last few years using a van service and each time was an uncomfortable ride with no sleep.  The advantage of using Aya Service to do this trip is that they held your hand all the way to the Thai Embassy.  After July 2015 this will no longer be the case.  Your Minivan ride will be from one Aya depot to another.

[hr]Visa Run to Vientiane, Laos in a Nutshell

In a Nutshell

bullet-greenGet to the Town of Nong Khai then to the Boarder
bullet-green1st Stop: Depart Thailand (Free)
bullet-green
2nd Stop: Get your Laos Visa (US$30-35)
bullet-green3rd Stop: Thai Embassy (8.30am-12.00pm)
bullet-greenGo and find your Accommodation in Vientiane

bullet-greenNext day after 1.30 Get Visa from Embassy

bullet-greenTake bus back to Nong Khai
bullet-greenLeave Laos (15,000 Kip at Boarder)
bullet-greenEnter Thailand (Free)
bullet-greenGet back home!

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1: Get Yourself to Nong Khai

A visa run from Chiang Mai or Bangkok, Thailand to Vientiane, Laos can be done via minivan (visa run service) bus and/or airplane.  It is approximately 700 km to the Thai border town of Nong Khai from both these cities, and overland these trips are done overnight (to arrive when the Embassy is open during the morning to accept applications).

Visa run services usually leave about 7pm and arrive at their depot the next morning at 5.30am to 6am.  Bus services traditionally take an entire night of travel (12 hours), and Flights take about an hour or so.  If flying from Bangkok you arrive directly at Vientiane Airport, and if flying from Chiang Mai you land at Undon Thani and take an hour bus trip to Nong Khai.

Check and Book Tickets via Train, Bus and Plane to Nong Khai
You can also book Aya Services Minivan whose office is located just a 5 minute walk to the Boarder crossing and Immigration.  If you don’t know this you might be tempted to pay for a Tuk Tuk but it is an easy enough walk.  Aya will provide you with a Laos Visa application (requiring one passport photo) and take you to the first stop off point. Visa Run by Air Flying will is about twice as much as taking a bus, but is over in one hour and allows you to arrive fresh and ready.  Different airlines offer different times and flying from Chiang Mai you can only go to Nong Khai. Flights from Bangkok go straight to Vientiane. NOTE: If you fly to Bangkok first (or flying from Bangkok) then you get your customs and entry done at the airport and can skip to point 4 Typically Nok Airways have a great deal on airfare, and you fly from Chiang Mai’s CNX airport to Udon Thani’s UTH airport in about an hour. From there you take a ride to Nong Khai, cross the border and catch another songthaew into Vientiane which is another 30 minutes. If you do not use Aya services you can download your Laos Visa on Arrival Form from us here at Chiang Mai Buddy

Aya Services at Nong Khai

Waiting for the Freedom Bridge to open at Aya Services in Nong Khai

2: Getting to the Immigration Checkpoints

The Nong Khai Customs and Boarder Post is right at the beginning of your trip.  On the right hand side is your exit point from Thailand.  This consists of a few booths with Immigration Officers who will inspect your departure card and stamp you out of Thailand.  Then you cross the road to the Lao Visa point to apply for and get your Visa.

Laos immigration

The Laos Immigration Windows – where you get your Visa to Enter Laos

At the Laos side you will need:
bullet-greenPassport

bullet-greenOne Passport Photo

bullet-greenVisa Application Form for Laos (Here)
bullet-greenUS$30-35 ( Baht is accepted)

Lao Visa Exemption

Lao visas are not required for citizens of many countries. The following countries will have to apply for a Visa before getting to the Immigration Checkpoint.

  1. Afghanistan
  2. Algeria
  3. Bangladesh
  4. Burundi
  5. Cameroon
  6. Congo
  7. Cote d’Ivoire
  8. Ghana
  9. Guinea
  10. Guinea Bissau
  11. Jordan
  12. Lesotho
  13. Liberia
  14. Libya ( Libyan Arab Jamahiriya )
  15. Mozambique
  1. Nauru
  2. Niger
  3. Nigeria
  4. Pakistan
  5. Senegal
  6. Sierra Leone
  7. Sri Lanka
  8. Suriname
  9. Syria ( Syrian Arab republic)
  10. Swaziland
  11. Tonga
  12. Turkey
  13. Zambia
  14. Zimbabwe

Lao Visa Costs

Below is a list of visa fee for different countries. If your country is not on the list, it probably costs you $US30 to get the visa or you’re not eligible for getting Laos visa on arrival.

Country Price (US Dollar)
Australia 30
Canada 42
China 20
India 40
Sweden 31
USA 35
UK 35
Others 30

 

Procedure to Get Visa on Arrival at Lao-Thai Friendship Bridge

It’s pretty easy to get the Lao visa on arrival at the Friendship bridge.  Windows are numbered so just go in sequential order 1-2-3.

Step 1: Get Visa application form at window #1, and fill it out. (although if you are reading this you will have downloaded the form and have it ready)

Step 2: Return the completed form with 1 or 2 passport type photos and visa fee, plus over time if you arrive out side working hours, on weekend or Lao public holidays, to the official at window #1 or window #2 if it is active, and wait to be called.

Step 3: When you’re called, collect your passport with the visa, at window #3 around the corner. Make sure you KEEP your departure sheet for exiting Laos.

This will take 10-15 minutes.  If you go before opening hours (which most tours will do) there is an extra $1 fee for making the staff start working early.

3: Getting to the Thai Embassy and Applying for your Visa

Once you have your Visa you walk 50 meters towards the Laos entry point, show your Passport and Visa to the Immigration staff and walk out to the chaos of drivers trying to get your fare into town.

If you are using Aya Services they provide a ride. You will as a group be guided along together and put into a seated truck.  If you are doing it on your own, you will negotiate with the driver or taxi to take you into Vientiane and the Thai Embassy.  Almost everybody crossing into Laos is heading to the Thai Embassy so don’t worry too much about how to get there.  Everybody knows.

Procedure to Get Thai Visa at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane

The Vientiane Royal Thai Embassy (Consular) location is at:

No.15 Ban Ponesinuan, Bourichane Road, Vientiane Capital
(Map)

Consular Section
Monday to Friday
08.30 hrs.–12.00 hrs. Application for Visa
13.00 hrs.–15.00 hrs. Distribution of Passports

Weekly Holiday
Saturday – Sunday

Warning:  In the last 6 months Immigration have tightened up.  As politically incorrect as it is to say, many dark or black skinned people (from certain countries I assume not including United States or the G7) and people dressed in scruffy attire are being denied. Basically Spiritual travelers and Black people are going to have a more difficult time.

Having said this, I myself went to Vientiane on 1st July 2015 and did not see any discrimination and a few dreadlock baggy pant lip pierced people also applying and getting their Visa’s.

Step 1: When you arrive line up with the 50-200 other people in the cue.  I have been on a Monday (busy) and a Tuesday (not busy).  The doors will open and on the busy days you are given a number.  On the non busy days you will line up at the document checking table.

Step 2: Your application and Documents will be checked.  Currently the Thai Embassy website for Vientiane is a mess, and the Visa Application form available on their site is wrong.  The new form is here.  You will need …


bullet-greenPassport (2 copies of front page)

bullet-green2 Passport Photo
‘s (Take extra just in case)
bullet-greenVisa Application Form (Here)
bullet-greenFee 1000-2000 Baht (depending on what Visa you are applying for

Step 3: When your documents are checked you will be given a number.  You sit and wait until that number is called.

Step 4: When your number is called you approach the window and hand over your documents.  Your bill will be stapled to the 2nd copy of your passport.

Step 5: Go inside the building to the cashier and pay – you are all done

Now head into Vientiane and find your Accommodation

4: Getting your processed Visa back

The Thai Embassy open for document retrieval at from 1-3pm.  Once you get yourself back to the Embassy (it is a 30 minute slow stroll from where most people stay) or about 100-130 baht for a Tuk Tuk.

Thai Embassy Laos

Wait until your number is called and pick up your Passport with Visa

Step 1: You will on your receipt have your number allocated.  Once the Embassy opens, follow the crowd and go and take a seat.  Depending on the day you will either pick up your passport at the window outside or be sent into the Building where you paid.

Step 2: Get your passport and head back across the boarder 🙂  Easy Peasy

5: Getting Back to Thailand

If you are flying via Bangkok, you just need to get to the airport and do the normal process with Customs and Immigration at the Airports.  If you are taking the bus, minivan service or flying from Udon Thani then you need to get back across the Freedom Bridge.

The easiest and cheapest way is to take the International Bus service.  From the Embassy the Bus terminal is a 10 minute walk or an negotiated taxi ride.  When I did it, we convinced a few people to take this method and shared a Taxi for 40 baht per person.  The only reason you should not use this method is if you want to buy Duty Free at Laos.  The bus is a quick and easy point to point trip.

Bus Terminal Laos

Get yourself to the Market Bus Terminal and get the 15,000 Kip International Trip

Step 1: Get yourself to the Market Bus Terminal and buy the 10,000 Kip (42 Baht) Ticket from Vientiane to Nong Khai.  The Bus runs every 30 minute to hour (depending on the time of day) and gets you right across the Freedom Bridge stopping off at both Immigration check points.

Laos Market Bus Terminal

Buying your Ticket on the Bus ride to Nong Khai

Step 2: The Bus will pull up to the Laos Customs and Immigration point. After 4pm Laos Immigration will want you to purchase a exit Ticket (12,000 Kip) which is a card you use to go through the barrier after getting your exit stamp. Go through the Laos Immigration Stand, then through the barrier and back on to the Bus.

Laos Checkpoint

Paying to Exit Laos (12,000 Kip)

Step 3: Next Stop the Thai Immigration Boarder.  You will get off the Bus and fill in your new arrival and departure cards and go through the Thai Immigration and Customs point.

Laos to Nong Khai

Step 4: Congratulations you are now back in Thailand.  If you are using Aya services you can walk back in 10 minutes or pay 20-100 baht (depending on your negotiation skills and time of day) to get back to Aya and ready for your trip back to Chiang Mai. If you are heading on to Udon Thani to the Airport or Bus ride back to Chiang Mai, then get back on the bus which will take you to the Bus Station.

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reite in chiang mai thailand

23 Reasons to Retire in Chiang Mai Thailand

23 Reasons to Retire in Chiang Mai Thailand 538 218 cmbadmin

How to Retire in Chiang Mai, Thailand & Live on $1000 a Month

Yes it can be done!  That’s how cheap Retirement in Chiang Mai Thailand can be.  One of the growing concerns for people approaching retirement age, is that the pension is just not enough for many people to live well in their own countries.  For many people they are just no longer happy with what is happening at home, with changing political and economic trends.  For some, now is the time to take advantage of all their spare time and explore more interesting and exotic places.  What ever your reason to look at Retirement – Chiang Mai is one place that should be at the top of your location list.

Whether you are thinking of retiring as a couple, or you are now on your own and the idea of a beautiful and younger companion who shares the values and beliefs you grew up with is appealing – Chiang Mai in Thailand has it all.  A great location for couples and single people alike, with so many things to do to keep you busy and still allow you to live in a style surpassing what you could at home.

Have a quick Look at what Chiang Mai Offers Retirees

 Video courtesy of the Chiang Mai Expats Club

How to Qualify to Retire in Thailand (Retirement Visa)

To qualify is actually pretty easy, and listed below.  For full details you can read the article on How to get a Retirement Visa for Thailand. 

50 years of age
Passport with 18 months left before expiring
Proof of Funds 800,000 Baht or US$ 25,000 or
Proof of income 60,000 Baht a month or US$2,000
Combination of Savings and Income
Fee 1900 Baht (US$60)

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What makes Chiang Mai so appealing to Retire?

I think it is a fair assumption to make that this article is not the first time you have heard of Chiang Mai, nor will it be the first time you have read about this beautiful northern city either.  Chiang Mai already has a reputation for being a retirement heaven, with many business’s, clubs and societies created by and for the retired expat.

Not only is everything here, ready and waiting for you to partake in, it is easily able to be done on even the tightest budget.  You can live an active and interesting life here for as little as $1000 a month.  Of course if you have more savings and greater income – you will be able to retire in a manner you may have only once dreamed about.

However, this beautiful city is not ideal for everybody, and it is highly recommended that you come for a holiday first, stay a month or two and test out Chiang Mai as well as other cities in Thailand.  If you decide to do this, then we at Chiang Mai Buddy specialize in finding you Accommodation cheaper than anywhere else you will find online and provide you with a Tour of the best locations for you to visit on a regular basis.

So… let’s examine some of the reasons you should absolutely consider Chiang Mai as a location to retire.

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1) Chiang Mai City itself

retire in chiang mai city

Chiang Mai means “New City”, yet is over 700 years old, and has an important role in Thailand’s history.  It is located in the northern part of Thailand, in the mountain area, and is the largest and most important city in this region. Chiang Mai is said to have a population of 160,000 but this consists only of the old city (walled center of town) when combining the several other areas around the city itself boosts a population of over 1 million.  At rough estimates there are some 40,000 expats living within Chiang Mai itself.

map_thailandChiang Mai is large enough to contain several golf courses, hundreds of spas, thousands of restaurants, and places to get a massage are always within a stones throw away.  There are also over 300 Temples – all working and operational with Monks, several large shopping malls and almost everything you could desire. Yet Chiang Mai is small enough to be able to easily drive, ride a motorcycle or get the famous Tuk Tuk’s to get out and about.

Chiang Mai city is a combination of modern and 700 years of history.  It is a rich and vibrant tourist center, with many well known areas, activities and shopping opportunities.  It also has the hidden out of the way gems that your fellow expats will delight in showing you.

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2) Cost of Living in Chiang Mai

Cost of living in Chiang Mai Thailand

Front page of the Nomad List website .. says it all

One of the biggest attractions of Chiang Mai, Thailand is the cost of living. The Nomad List website, which compares the cost of living and quality of life of cities around the world, rank Chiang Mai as one of the cheapest places to be. While this website is for the younger traveler it’s economic breakdown of hundreds of locations makes for interesting reading.  This cheap cost of living is supported by International Living, a subscription based retirement community both online and in magazine form.  Many articles and retirement companies do cost of living vs quality of life locations, Chiang Mai is always in the top 5.

You can live here on an extreme budget, choosing accommodation like Siriruk Apartment for less than $100 a month. Or for $500 stay in a fully serviced Hotel like the Victoria.  If you decide to stay here longer, you save even more, able to rent a budget 30-45 square meter condo apartment from around 4000-7000 Baht (If you are staying here longer, you are able to lease a condo (usually 6 months minimum but can sometimes you can find one for 3 months) and save even more.  To buy your own condo you would start at around US$25,000 for a basic unit (35-45 sq.m) and more realistically for 80-100 sq.m and two bedrooms looking at around US$50k +.  Houses can be purchased for 50k and beyond.  Of course depending on how old you are (let’s be realistic here), you can rent your accommodation for 30 years before you would spend what it would cost to purchase.

The one downside is that a non Thai can not own more than 49% of the land a property sites on, for this reason many couples buy condos (you can own these 100%), or wait until they marry a local before purchasing a house. To get an idea of the type and quality of condo rental or home purchase you can expect for the price have a look at this local real estate agency

A Motorbike rental can start as low as $60 a month, but beware, this will be a low quality bike. Most likely older, 100 cc manual motorcycle. You are much better off spending $90-100 and get a newer 125cc bike large enough and with enough power for the western frame.  Food in a Thai Thai (the word to explain a typical local place) restaurant starts at 25 baht and seldom goes past 40 (US 75 cents to $1.20). Most people tend to go to the local places in more urban areas where you are looking at US$1-2 for a meal. Western food usually cost more, but still much cheaper than is typical in your home country. Although you will generally find eating out is cheaper than cooking food yourself at home.

You can live in Chiang Mai for about $500 a month. You will live well for $1000

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3) The Expat and Social Community

Chiang Mai has an incredible amount of open social network groups that are always providing something to do.  The social communities in Chiang Mai, provide information on “how to…”, “where to…” and “when to…”; and arrange for group outings as well as hold there own social events.

Westerners in Chiang Mai, have over years built social and entertainment networks that allow you to do something new almost everyday.  . Lana Cricket have used the Gymkhana sports grounds for over 50 years, providing a wide variety of tennis, golf, cricket and other sporting and social events.

Expats having fun in Chiang Mai

Perhaps the best of all of the communities is the Chiang Mai Expat Club, which holds a variety of Scheduled Events and Activities. The Expat Club is a one off 1000 baht membership (US$32) and is an open resource of many business that specialize in the Expat and Retired person. Not to mention the fantastic breakfasts and meals they put on at there social events.  The Chiang Mai Expat group really is your one stop shop to a new social network and introduction to people who have been where you where and now openly sharing their wisdom and knowledge.

Some of the Many Social Networks available in Chiang Mai For more check out our Resources

I Love Chiang Mai – We all love Chiang Mai – there is a great files section with loads of information. This is a secret group, you will need a friend who is a member add you

Chiang Mai Events – it’s usually here if it is happening in Chiang Mai.

Whats Happening Chang MaiThe primary focus of ‘What’s happening in Chiang Mai’ is to provide to voice to those connected to Burma and social justice issues generally. We welcome posts that are of value to the audience advertising events, and important news affecting our community.

What, Where, When Chiang Mai – A page for people, event organizers, promoters, bar owners, club owners to let everyone know what’s happening in Chiang Mai. Feel free to add people to the group, the more people on here the more we’ll know what’s happening in and around Chiang Mai

Chiang Mai – For people wanting to come to or already living or just interested in Chiang Mai

TEDx Chiang Mai – Chiang Mai’s affiliated TEDx talks

Farang Community Chiang Mai – An ask and you shall receive group for foreign nations in Chiang Mai.

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thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
Of course if you are coming to Chiang Mai, you have your own buddy that for a very small fee will help you with anything you need assistance with.  Until you get your bearings and can navigate around yourself, we are here to help you find a place to live, show you around and assist you in whatever way we can.

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4) Cheap Medical Providers

Chiang Mai RAM Hospital

Thailand is well known as a medical vacation location, because the medical treatment is first rate at a fraction of the cost of where you are living now.  Medical and Dental treatment is affordable as is cosmetic surgery, in fact everything is affordable, including the health insurance for living here full time.

A dental clean is about 600 baht, x-rays only 800 baht, ($17-22), a visit to a Doctor for medical checkups are around 200 baht ($7) and medical certificates for the various documentations you will need are 50-100 baht ($3). Insurance? around 20,000 baht per year will get you  a premium health insurance policy with Bupa Blue Cross

The cost of hospitalization for a private ward would start around 2,000 baht per day. Many expensive medicines are reproduced in generic form locally (or from India) and provided considerably cheaper. You can of course still get the branded medicines if you wish.

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5) In-house Nurse Aid or Retirement community

If your health is already requiring a little more attention, or the need arises to go into a care facility, Chiang Mai has you covered here as well.  You can hire your own nurse or care giver on a short time or live in position for about 15,000 baht per month.  Retirement communities here, are luxury palaces, providing accommodation, meals, doctors, nurses, social outings and in patient facilities for about US$2000 per month – everything covered.

Have a look at the promotional video for one such Care community right here in Chiang Mai.

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6) The People of Chiang Mai

chiang mai hilltribe people

The Hill Tribe People of Chiang Mai

Because of it’s northern location, Chiang Mai is influenced by the ‘Lanna’ and Hill Tribe tradition and people, who remain a popular influence on the local traditions and values of the city.  The Lanna heritage takes shape all over the city in the forms of language, clothing, art, architecture, music, food, and more. The people here often still wear the local clothing, which may be dyed cobalt blue or an array of other colors. Another characteristic of Lanna that people notice immediately is the volume of artistry the culture is infused with. Chiang Mai has long been an arts center with areas like the Baan Tawai wood carvers’ enclave, and the Bor Sang umbrella-making village.

If you are the type of person who thrives of arts and crafts, no where else in Thailand (possibly Asia) boosts so many factories and entire villages dedicated to arts. You can visit workshops where you can learn about the production of silk or silver, and purchase memorable, hand-crafted souvenirs.

Chiang Mai Lana People

Chiang Mai Lana People

The presence of numerous hill tribes that feature a wealth of unique cultures enhances Chiang Mai’s distinctive diversity. Hill tribe trekking, often combined with river rafting and elephant riding has always been one of Chiang Mai’s greatest tourist attractions.

Thailand is promoted as the land of smiles, and never more than in Chiang Mai. The people are friendly and helpful and honest! The locals here are not (unlike other parts of Asia) always looking for a way to get something from the westerner and tourist. Locals will help you in times of need, and some of the sweetest natures in the world are possessed by the women here.  One of the greatest things about being in Chiang Mai is that you do not have to always be on guard that your wallet is about to be taken advantage of.

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7) Non Sex-Tourist Atmosphere

Chiang Mai is a traditional city, populated with many migrants from the rural areas of Thailand as noted above. These people have traditional and high values, and Chiang Mai is NOT what you might expect about Thailand from watching movies. Here (unlike other parts of Thailand and Asia) you will not see the 70 year old man holding hands with a young child of 20 that he refers to s his “girl friend”.  Yes this is Thailand, and there are parts of the city you can visit if you are feeling ‘lonely’ – but for the most part the people that stay here in Chiang Mai have higher morals and codes of behaviors from the sex tourist.

Chiang Mai is also a relaxed city. Things happen here at a slower pace, and no one is really in a hurry. The city is big enough and caters for most people and most tastes, but lacks the zoom zoom speed of other Asian cities. Some people find this slower pace, and lack of sexual promiscuity is not for them.  Those that choose to live here do not mind at all and are rather happy about other cities providing these services.  While it is common for a man to have a much younger Thai partner, people who openly flaunt the importance (to them) of the sexual aspect of their relationship – seldom find like minded companions to hang out with in Chiang Mai.

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8) Beautiful Younger Woman who wants Love

If you are a older single man with moderate resources then you are likely to find a partner here who is attractive and younger than you.  You should know before you come How to Date Thai Women because the attitudes and culture make for some compromise in the type of expectations that a relationship with a Thai lady will bring.

Thai women are traditional, they reflect the values of the generations that many people grew up in and feel more comfortable in. A Thai girl friend or wife will take care of the house, cook and clean and dote on you like no other women from western cultures will do.  Men and Women have roles here, the man is to protect and provide, and the women is to take care of her family.  You can personally disagree with this cultural aspect of Thailand, and it is possible to meet a more modern thinking lady for a relationship.  Remember you are the one moving here, some of your attitudes and ways of looking at things will need to be flexible.

Be aware than a Thai women will always put her parents and the Royal Family above you.  You marry the family when you marry the lady, and you will be expected to help the family out if required (this means financially).  But if you are a good person, someone who shows respect and kindness, in times of your own ill health, you will be repaid back with a generosity and care that is beyond what most people can imagine.

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9) Availability and Quality of Accommodation

Chiang Mai city is growing. From almost any view in any Condo or monthly rental accommodation you will see new accommodation buildings going up. Long term condo leasing (6-12 months) is easily found, shorter term (3 months) more difficult but not impossible. For the short term visit it is better to find accommodation at a monthly apartment complex.

There are a range of websites that cater to your need to rent a house or condo. Discounted prices for longer term leases is common.  In the heart of the city, prices are a little higher, if you wanted to live a little further out (10 km or so) you can find a beautiful new (often fully furnished) 3 bedroom house for the same price as an inner city condo – starting around 8000-9000 baht (US$ 250) per month. If you do not mind an older place, you can easily find a 2 bedroom house for around 6000 baht (US$180)

Many developments have been created with enclosed gated communities that are heavily populated by Expats and Retired couples, singles and mixed relationships.  There is absolutely no shortage of quality homes in amazing surroundings

You can search yourself at two of the more popular places
Chiang Mai Properties
DD Properties

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thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
Many of the best deals available come from local people whose command of English is not great (such as the places listed at the DD Properties website).  We can help you arrange to visit and look around properties, negotiate the price and contract details and then act as an intermediate for TV, Internet and should you need to talk to your landlord in the future.

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10) Fantastic Weather

Press image to enlarge

Press image to enlarge

From November to February the weather in Chiang Mai is perfect. Clear blue skies with 30°C temperatures and low humidity during the day and lower temperatures at night. Around March the temperature starts to get hotter, but Chiang Mai being located in the mountains is always a few degrees C lower than anywhere else in Thailand and most places in Asia.

The rainy season starts around May and sometimes goes until October. The rain usually happens once or twice a day for 30-60 minutes. And it is a downpour!. You will have about 30 minutes warning as the dark clouds roll in and 10 minutes before it starts the wind picks up. If you are under cover the refreshing breeze and cooler temps are a welcome visitor. During the rainy seasons (really it should be referred to as the daily hour of rain) the surrounding area of Chiang Mai is beautiful.

Day trips, and rides to see the tourists spots or just to go on an adventure, will offer some of the best photos you will ever have the privileged of taking. Worse case (because you do not want to ride in the rain) is that for 30-60 minutes you will have to stop off and sit back and relax at a cafe along your trip.

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11) Worlds Best Food

Chiang Mai Street Food
Thai food is amazing, and here in Chiang Mai it is at least 1/5th of the price you would pay back home, and much less if going to a fancy eatery.. Food stalls and markets are found all over the city where you can sample local dishes for $1 a meal. Well known Thai favorites like pad Thai and green curry are readily available, and Chiang Mai is famous for its local specialty Khao Soi.

If you decide to attend a cooking school (around $30 for a half to full day) you will discover the secret to Khao Soi (OK, OK it is a Thai red curry with Indian curry powder mixed in) Vegetarians are extremely well catered for (Thais often go meatless in their meals for special Buddha events). When you tire of Thai food, there are hundreds of restaurants that cater for every other taste. Indian, Mexican, Greek – you name it, Chiang Mai has an expat who has decided to open it. For more details Where to find Western Food in Chiang Mai

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12) Cheap Fresh Produce

If you decide you want to cook for yourself (and most people give up on this idea after a week or two of living here because it IS cheaper to eat out) then the local markets in Chiang Mai are for you. Lower prices than the supermarkets and full of local and imported foods from other regions of Thailand – the local markets are a busy and popular place with the locals.

The Markets can be slightly overwhelming for the new arrival, (we offer a quick lesson on how to go and purchase produce included with the Expat Tour) – but you will soon get the hang of it. One of the Kings projects was to help the farmers convert from growing drugs to growing food. Farmers where taught how to grow particular crops and shown how to do it well. The end result is an abundance of both tropical and native fruits and vegetables that you are used too at home.

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13) Beautiful Scenery and Landscapes

Chiang Mai Scenery

Chiang Mai is located in the North of Thailand, in the Mountains. This is not the place to live if you can not live without the beach.  (although check out the cheap transport section – it costs nothing to get away for the week).  There are many places and pools for swimming, but this is mountain country, full of lush forests, mountains, old villages, rice fields, elephants, gardens, lakes, caves, temples, national parks and more.

Just a short drive outside of Chiang Mai is another world. Forrest with Elephants, Monkeys, rice paddy’s, coffee plantations, mist steeped mountains, lakes … the list goes on and on.  The Thai Queen had an avid interest in gardens and there are many “Queens Gardens” spread around the province. Even for the die hard adventure fan, there is something truly relaxing about sipping coconut milk next to lush and exotic species of plants, that flower and bloom under the cover of cooling tropical shade.

The scenery both natural and created over centuries along side of Temples by monks and villages is breathtaking and mesmerizing. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the amazing photographs when you just do a Google image search for Chiang Mai.

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14) The Temples

Temples and scenery of Chiang Mai

Chiang Mai has Temples! Estimates vary but around 300 seems to be the usual quoted number.  There are large temples, gold temples, silver temples, old ruins that are still in operation, temples for a particular village.  If taking photos of golden laced statues surrounded by orange and red clothed monks of all ages is your thing – you could spend months going to different places everyday. If you are up in the early hours you will frequently see monks collecting elms along the side of the roads, monks traveling in public transport … monks monk monks!  They are everywhere and widely valued and respected by the people of Chiang Mai.

Thai culture is also valued very highly here in Chiang Mai, much more so that other major cities in Thailand.  Thailand and indeed Chiang Mai is relatively free from western religion, (although there are churches here); instead the vast majority of people (99%) are Buddhist and this culture is loudly and proudly displayed during the day to day activities of the people.  The Temples are the central focus for this culture and often the beginning and end place for Thai people to seek answers to any problems they have.

For we westerners, each is a magnificent reminder that we are indeed in another world.  And your friends and family will be envious of the amazing photographs you send home or put on Facebook.

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15) The Holidays & Festivals

Loy Krathong in Chiang Mai

The culture in Chiang Mai is vibrant and often celebrated. Festivals and Public Holidays are times when the Locals, Expats and tourists alike relax, take time off and enjoy the many colorful and exotic experiences. In particular Songkran (April 13-16) and Loy Kratong (Nov 25) are two events that draw overseas tourists and Thai’s from other regions of the country. These are two events that should be on everyone bucket list!

Thai people generally believe that life brings with it, a fair share of misery – and they take each and every opportunity to take a break from this and celebrate happiness. This is represented by the many may festivals and celebrations. Each of them a spectacular event to watch or partake in.  The only downside is that on special days alcohol will not be sold, so you need to stock up the day before.

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16) Chiang Mai Coffee

Chiang Mai Coffee

Chiang Mai Coffee Farmer explains bean flavors

Do you like Coffee? The people in Chiang Mai love it.

In Chiang Mai many of the hundreds and hundreds of cafes will have their own coffee farms, to supply them with their house coffee. The coffee here is what is known as the top 1% (by those who spend time slurping and spitting it out). The Chiang Mai region grows Coffee – It is 100% organic, grown under natural shade at high attitudes and hand picked, wet processed and dried in the sun, and packaged with single source beans.

You are free to spend hours drinking coffee at any of the coffee shops, all of which provide AC on the hot days and free and fast WiFi.  There are coffee shops located within the city and on the outskirts surrounded by beautiful surroundings.  Every place will have prepackaged coffee for you to take home and enjoy in your own condo or house.

Many people suggest that Thailand Coffee is bitter.  This is just not the case, coffee is slightly bitter, but this aspect has been removed by the mass farmed plantations that supply many of the coffee companies around the world. There is nothing nicer than starting your day with a fresh brew of some of the best coffee in the world that you brought for $12 a kilo.

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17) No Horns, Hustlers, Poverty & Ripoffs

Reasons to Live in Chiang Mai

In Chiang Mai, you are NOT constantly asked to buy things

One of the most unpleasant things about living or traveling in Asia, is the constant harassment you get from the traders (who are just trying to make money to live).  Sales people, Tuk Tuk drivers, beggars on the street, will follow you and bother you hoping that you will purchase their wares. This does not happen in Chiang Mai.  The local people here are respectful and polite, here your “No” means No and you are left alone.

Often the prices are listed on items at the market, and unlike other places it is the same price for locals as it is the westerners.  You can still bargain in many places, but unlike many other places around the world – with the price on the eggs, or chicken – you know exactly what it is and never feel like you are being ripped off.

Thailand in general (not just Chiang Mai) does not use the horn like Philippines or Vietnam.  In other countries the horn is a constant sound and can get very annoying and cause noise stress.  It is difficult to relax with a wine, beer or coffee if every car and motorcycle passing by is tooting the horn.  Rest assured – none of these typical Asian experiences will be an issue in Chiang Mai.

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18) Safety

Chiang Mai is rated as one of the safest cities in the world. Crime against foreigners is extremely rare, and apart from riding a motorcycle, you will never feel intimidated or afraid for your safety. You can freely and comfortably walk around either during the day or the small hours of the night and feel totally safe even if you are a single women alone.

The scams that fill the headlines in western media about Thailand and Asia just do not happen here in Chiang Mai – or at least are very very rare. The one exception to this is the Mob run Karaoke Bars along Chang Klan road. Here you can go in for an hour, have a few drinks with a few ladies and come out with a 30,000 baht bill. Many (often drunk and loud) westerners do not understand how a few drinks and a couple of ladies flirting with them can cost $1000. The answer is simple – it is a scam – just don’t go there!

There is a special division of Police in Thailand called the Tourist Police, whose sole job is to help any westerners in distress.  Most of the time they are quick to respond and work on your behalf.  The rest of the time, (while this is slowly changing) Thai justice is not so much what has happened as who you know and how much ‘instant’ fines you are prepared to pay.

Generally however, compared to the rest of the world, Chiang Mai is very safe.  It is part of the values and culture here in Chiang Mai – crime is a sin and a sign of a weak person.  It is rarely done compared to other cultures and cities.

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19) So Much to Do!!

Chiang Mai Elephant Tour

There is more to life than just relaxing, and in Chiang Mai there’s plenty to do in your downtime. You may have seen the Elephant Painting on YouTube – here in Chiang Mai you can go and see it for real. You could visit one of the many Wats (temples); learn to cook Thai food, or how to give a massage. Perhaps learn a new language or get qualified to Teach English and donate some of your time to charities and children.

Chiang Mai is a popular tourist destination and caters for every type of activity.  You can learn how to train elephants, go to Spas and retreats, and take advantage of all the activities in place for the tourist.  In addition as someone who lives here you will have access to the many social groups and activities arranged by locals for locals.

When you are bored spending your days, relaxing by pools, drinking coconuts, and pottering around in your garden – there is enough to do in Chiang Mai to keep you busy and active for years.

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20) Transport is Cheap

You can hire a motorbike for 3000 baht a month (sometimes less and sometimes more) – but if you want to use public transport it is easily affordable. Chiang Mai is supposed to have a public bus system but you will never see it. The reality is the Red Truck and Tuk Tuk mafia own this town. Taxi’s are not allowed to drive around looking for customers, and there are no Motorcycle Taxi’s.

But! You can jump on the Red Trucks and travel for just 20 baht, a Tuk Tuk will cost you between 60-100 for a 5 kilometer trip (depending on the time of day and how well you haggle). Hiring Cars for day trips is around 800-1200 baht. If you need to do a Visa run, or want to visit another city (or country) the Bus, Train, Tour Vans and Flights are incredibly cheap.

Chiang Mai has an international Airport and has flights to many different countries starting at $100.  Fly one hour to Bangkok and the choice is almost endless.  From your base in Chiang Mai you can go to another country for a weekend or a week, for just a few hundred dollars.  In addition if you fancy a trip to the beach, the endless special offers for flights within Thailand mean you can do this as well starting at $15 per flight (although usually $60-100)

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21) Visa’s are Easy to Get

Getting a retirement Visa to Thailand is very easy and affordable.  The paperwork is small and there are endless local services that can take the hassle away and do the required work for you.

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22) Everything you will need is here

Chiang Mai is small enough to easily learn your way around and become familiar with the city, and big enough to have something for everyone. There are may reasons that Chiang Mai is one of the most popular places to retire. Houses and accommodation are plentiful and cheap, maids and help either live in or out are readily available.  Western owned and themed bars and restaurants, food, medical treatment, dentists, Expats clubs, Golf, Tennis, swimming, dance groups, acting classes, Yoda, fitness.

There is just no point trying to list everything that is here, rather it is easier to list what you can not find in Chiang Mai.
1) A Beach,
2) hmm That’s it!

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23) Chiang Mai Buddy

We at Chiang Mai Buddy are here to help with your transitions. We can help arrange for a local moving company to pack your belongings and store them, find you a short term accommodation that will allow you to explore the city.  Our staff can assist you with the small and big issues you will discover living in a new city and culture.  When you are ready we can help negotiate lease agreements, or point you in the right direction for English speaking business that are designed especially for the Expat looking to retire in Chiang Mai.

Did I mention how cheap it is to live in Chiang Mai?  Have a look at our pricing table and be prepared to be surprised.  Yes these prices are correct.  You can hire us for as little as $6 an hour to make calls for you, arrange cable, TV or Internet.  For just a little more we will come with you and assist you in person to get things done.

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There are of course so many other reasons to come and live in Chiang Mai.  It is a big step, and a difficult one.  We strongly suggest you come and visit for a month or two and really see how well you will adjust.

Reason to Not Retire in Chiang Mai, Thailand

There are a couple of reasons you should think twice about retiring here in Thailand.

The most important is a common issue here.  People come to retire early in life when they are younger (50 plus) and healthy.  As people age, and start to get more regular ill health – it can become a problem here.  Bear in mind that many people come from countries where after retirement age (60-65 years) they are entitled to free healthcare, assisted living, free bus rides etc.

If you are thinking of retiring in Thailand because you think it will save you money (This is true if you are healthy) but are starting to get older.  It might be better to stay in a country that offers health and aged services.

Get a 30 day Visa Extension in Chiang Mai

Get a 30 day Visa Extension in Chiang Mai cmbadmin

How To Get a 30 day Visa Extension in Chiang Mai

Caution

Warning:
1) Visa Rules Changed 1st May 2015, as did the attitude and helpfulness of staff at Chiang Mai Immigration Service.

2) Travel Blogs by people giving their personal experience written or dated before this time should be taken with a grain of salt.  Some will tell of an easy and breezy experience, others will tell of a horror story.

It is not uncommon that once people arrive in Chiang Mai they decide that they want to stay longer.  Luckily for those with a Visa Exemption (and those who have a Tourist Visa) it is possible to get an extra 30 days at the local Immigration Office for a fee of 1900 Baht.

But the Chiang Mai Immigration Office is understaffed and over worked.  Some of the staff there are showing the stress of this, and are not being as helpful as they once where.  Once they would tell you what was wrong with your application, suggest how you can fix it, and tell you to come back to the window to complete it.  Now (some of the staff) are just rejecting your application and telling you to fix it and come back tomorrow.

For Example:  A customer of ours went for an extension but did not have photocopies of his passport.  Rather than be told there is a photocopying service at the back of the building, he was told “Get copies and go back in line” (another 3 hours wait). But he was not told he could do this on location, and he left frustrated.

[hr]30 Day Visa Extension in a Nutshell

In a Nutshell

bullet-greenYou do not need to cue up at 6.30am
bullet-greenVisa Extensions are scheduled for morning
bullet-greenAll of your Documents need to be correct

bullet-greenWait time varies from 1-4 hours
bullet-greenYou HAVE to attend in person

bullet-greenVisa Services can cue for you (no waiting)

bullet-greenDress well and always remain polite
bullet-greenMost people can get 30 days Extension

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What is a Visa Extension?

A Thai Visa Extension is an additional 30 days of permission to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand after your Visa was expired.  The Visa Extension can apply to a Tourist visa, and a visa exemption (the 30 days you get on arrival when you do NOT have a Visa).

Visa’s can be extended simply by visiting your local immigration office anywhere in Thailand, filling out a form, and paying a fee. Extending your visa should be done before your visa expires; you can get your visa extended on the last day without any problem (providing you have everything correctly filled out and get there on time.

Extending your Visa is a 1900 baht fee, while overstaying is a 500 baht per day fine which can lead to complications and rejections of future acceptance into Thailand when arriving or applying for a Visa.

Note:  Thailand is now getting very strict on people they consider undesirable.  This includes free spirited folks looking to obtain enlightenment and experience Thai culture (what we oldies call hippies).  People who are obtaining Visa exemptions and doing boarders runs (now limited to 3 or 4 times) & people who show disrespect to Thai culture.  This means getting angry or upset (remain polite and smile – everything is your fault).  If you usually have face piercings, dreadlocks wear wife beater t-shirts (especially women wearing non modest clothing which includes cut off shorts) try to make an extra effort to dress appropriately.  You are judged on your appearance as well as your attitude.

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1: Preparation of your 30 Day Visa Extension Documents

Make sure you are absolutely prepared with your documents and have your forms filled out correctly.  You will need….

  • Your Passport (including arrival/departure card)
  • Photocopies of your Passport (front page, Departure car Entry Stamp)
  • Thai Visa Extension Form
  • One passport sized picture
  • Full details of your address in Thailand

Your Passport:
If it is not already obvious to you, this is an Immigration Office, you will need to take your original passport with you to show them when you obtain a ticket.  If you are wanting to use a Visa Service to cue for you then you will need to hand over your passport to this service.

Photocopies of Passport
You need to provide copies of your passport for Immigration to keep.  While you can obtain these at the Immigration Office, it kind of defeats the purpose of reading this if you are not going to be prepared before you arrive.

– First page (picture page) of your passport
– Current Thai visa stamp
– Current Thai visa page (if you have that)
– Departure card

The Visa Exemption Form
This can be a little tricky when filling out for the first time.  here are some tips ..

If you have a Visa Exemption
The section that asks for “Holding passport or travel documents” you put in Visa Exemption and the date that you arrived in the country.  Valid until is the date on your stamp (when you have to leave)

If you have a Visa
The section that asks for “Holding passport or travel documents” you put in the type of Visa (Tourist/Business)  and the date that your visa was issued.  Valid until is the date on your stamp (when you have to leave)

Tambon/Khwaeng =  Subburb
Amphone/Khet = City (if in Chiang Mai it is Chiang Mai)
Changwat = Province (if n Chiang Mai it is Chiang Mai)

Passport Photo
These can be found at any of the photo shops in Chiang Mai or at the Immigration center itself.  Usually 4 to 6 photos sized 3.5 cm x 4.5 cm (1.4″ x 1.8″) will cost about 100 baht. It always pays (especially if you are traveling) to have spare passport photos in your wallet or travel bags.

The photo places will photoshop you into a suit and tie at no extra charge.  Get this done as it goes a little way into proving you are a suitably person for immigration to allow into the Kingdom of Thailand

Full details of your address in Thailand
Not often required but sometimes asked for (especially if the officer is having a bad day or you are considered not polite by getting frustrated at the wait)  A business card of your accommodations will be sufficient.  A lease agreement even better.

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2: Getting to the Chiang Mai Immigration Office

The immigration office is open 8:30 am to 4:30 pm Monday to Friday, except on national holidays. Lunch break is from 12:00 an 1:00.

The location and buildings of the various offices around Thailand are always changing.  Rather than provide outdated information I suggest you call the office at the location you are at, and get the address first hand. (or search the city immigration website

Chiamg Mai 90 Day ReportingChiang Mai Immigration Promenada (map)

Notify 90 Days (as of 20 July 2015)

Promenada Chiang Mai Immigration
192-193 Moo 2
Tumbon Tasala,
Amphur Muang
Chiang Mai
50000

d2_cnx@immigration.go.th

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3: Process for Getting Your 30 Day Visa Extension

The Visa extension process is done mostly in the mornings (with 90 day reporting scheduled for the afternoon).  Many people tell you to go and queue at 6.30am to get your initial ticket.This is not always needed.

The Initial Ticket:  Because Chiang Mai Immigration is usually busy, people go early and wait.  These people are issued a ticket for when the office opens.  Each person goes to the counter, requesting another ticket and time for the particular reason they are at Immigration.

This is not usually required (unless you waited until the last day to get your extension).  80% of the time you can arrive at 8.30 when the office opens and wait until everyone else with a cue ticket has been served and then approach the counter.  You will usually get a number for that day.  But because the afternoons are focused on other types of Visa Applications if you go after 10am you run the risk of being told to come back the next day.

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Step One:
When you approach the counter, you request the service you want and show them your passport.  Be aware that if you want to get a Visa Service agent to do this bit on your behalf you will have to give the agent your original passport. They will issue you a number and you sit down and wait.

The waiting time can be anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes on a great day or 3 or 4 hours on a busy day.  Remember 80% of the time you are in and out within an hour or so.  As is always seems to be the case when you are on a time limit (like applying on the last day) is when you manage to find you went on a bad day.

Step Two:
When your number is called at the window (usually the windows on the left hand side of the counter) the Immigration Officer will ask for your passport, application form and fee.  You will get change when your passport is returned to you if you do not have the correct amount.  If anything is wrong, it is up to the individual officer as to how they will proceed, either telling you what is incorrect and giving you an opportunity to fix it there (such as an address or incorrect detail on the form) or giving you back your documents telling you it is wrong (and why) and to fix it and get another number.  This is beginning to happen more and more often as new staff are being employed from the Army – and the Army are pretty good at training their soldiers that total compliance is mandatory.  Immigration are not so good are retraining these people on customer service.

Step Three:
If everything is OK, you will be told to sit down, and the staff will process your application.  This can take anything from 10-30 minutes.  Your name and country will be called from the middle counter (you will see this happening as you are waiting) and you collect your passport (change inside if needed) and you are all done.

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Notes:

1) Chiang Mai Immigration is very busy and the Immigration system is going through changes that is stressing out the staff working there much more than the discomfort you may experience waiting a few hours. It is always important to be respectful to Thai people, even more so to Officials who can make or break your visit here.  Dress well, always smile, be polite.  Being loud, rude, raising your voice are all signs of a low class and disrespectful person.  This is exactly what Immigration have been instructed to not encourage as visitors to Thailand

2) There is a Photocopy and Photograph shed located at the back of the building.  You can always get your documentation completed there if you have arrived unprepared.

Immigration Photocopy tent

3) Be wary of outdated information posted on travel blogs.  I made the mistake of putting off writing this type of blog post myself because there where already a number of other travel bloggers covering the process. Only to have customers following the advice of other posts online and being surprised that events took hours or had their applications rejected due to errors.

What Should I Pack? A Nomad Guide

What Should I Pack? A Nomad Guide cmbadmin

What should I pack? A guide for the Digital Nomad

Deciding what to bring with you is the hardest part of going Nomad, and I know this handbook caters to a wide variety of people from young Millennials to retiring Baby Boomers. I am going to cover the bones; your travel necessities.

Do not worry about forgetting anything, and do not become overly obsessed with your packing list. Despite my own previous fascination with scouring the web for Digital Nomad packing lists, the truth is that most “must-have” travel accessories aren’t, and you could survive just as easily and affordable if you were born yesterday and sent to Thailand without anything but the clothes on your back and your passport.

I’ve been able to travel with nothing but a carry on for years, and I still re-evaluate my belongings before every relocation in a vain attempt to reduce the load.

Those wheeled suitcases don’t bode well in Southeast Asia due to high pedestrian traffic and uneven, obstacle-course like “sidewalks”. Using bulky suitcases obligate you to find a place to check-in right after your arrival, whereas a good backpack will allow you to rove around town and settle in before deciding where to hang your head for the night.

The key to remember is to disregard anything you do not need when you want to move somewhere. Less is more, and spending less on “stuff” (aka “filler”) will free up hard earned cash for select, authentic, quality items that will last longer, can be repaired, carry a lifetime warranty, leave a lasting impression, etc.

As mentioned previously, 7-Eleven carries just about every toiletry, personal care, or hygiene item you may need while in Thailand so I only included items you need during transit in this list.

And if you’re going to bring any “refillable” items –a best example being a razor– don’t. A lot of the products available back home are different from those in Thailand and may not be compatible.

Lastly, carry a nylon dry bag in case you need to carry smelly items or get caught in the rain (or a Songkran soaker parade) and keep all of your papers in an easily accessible place, separate from other belongings.

So let’s recap these packing rules:

  • Only use a carry-on, never check your luggage
  • Don’t carry items you rarely use and can acquire on the ground for cheap (ie. raincoat, basic medicines)
  • Carry a nylon water-proof bag to protect specific items from getting wet

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1) Backpack

I selected two backpacks for this line item, however I only use (and am in love with) the first option.

The second option is presented because it looks like a great product, and was actually developed by Nomads, for Nomads through a Kickstarter campaign some years ago.

Option 1: Osprey Farpoint 70
http://www.ospreypacks.com

The Osprey Farpoint 70 is a little large for my needs, and I keep it 2/3 full at all times, except for when I visit home. That 1/3 of space will be great for gifts for nieces and nephews.

This pack meets several key requirements I think all of you may need to consider when making your backpack purchase(s).

Clamshell opening

The Osprey Farpoint’s ability to open “clam shell” style allows for non-linear access to your items. Simply put, no first-in-first-out nonsense, digging through your bag at inconvenient times, etc. You can open part of the bag, or you can peel back the entire top flap of the bag for equal access to objects anywhere within it.

Detachable Day Pack

The Osprey Farpoint also comes with a detachable day pack which I use every day, only using the larger portion of the pack for relocations.

The day pack will fit a laptop (from a Mac Air to a bulky Lenovo), assorted electronics, journals, maps, books, change of clothes, shoes, etc.

You can also detach the day pack from the face of the Osprey Farpoint and strap it to the front of your body while still being connected to the central pack on your back. This is great for crowded areas when you don’t want your laptop packed out of your peripheral vision.

Warranty

Osprey packs a lifetime warranty with each of its backpack models, which to me, says a lot. It’s one less thing to worry about. They sell Osprey bags at Maya Mall in Chiang Mai, too. It’s quite likely you could arrange a swap in an emergency if you call Osprey directly. If not, ship it back and they’ll replace it.

Great Carry On

Technically, the 70 litre Osprey Farpoint shouldn’t be an acceptable carry on. Shhhh! Don’t tell anyone. However, I’ve been able to get away with it on every flight I’ve taken this bag on in over 2 years. The reason? It can transform into a duffel bag.

All of the bulky straps and be tucked away easily behind a giant flap that is hidden at the bottom of the bag. Once the straps are out of the way and you use the side handle with the flap side out, the bag appears much more streamlined and fits easily into the overhead compartment.

Your only obstacle is weight, but I’ve also been lucky in that my bag has never been weighed, and I can squeeze it into the metal cage used to determine carry-on size allowance. The trick is to act like the bag is really light and hide your wincing!

If you’re concerned about not being able to pull off using the Farpoint 70 as a carry-on, you and I could both easily get away with using a Farpoint 55.

Option 2: Minaal Carry On
http://www.minaal.com

A bag I do not use, but one I respect. The Minaal 35 litre pack is engineered to be the ultimate carry on and also looks a little more “flash packer” –meaning it’s easy on the eyes is a high quality pack.

It too is a clamshell bag, allows you to zip away straps, fits all major airline carry-on dimensions, and also comes with a slide-on rain cover. Electronics stored within it are also housed in a suspended sleeve, so not matter which way it hits the ground, your gear won’t pay the ultimate price.

No day pack though, so for now, I will stick with my Osprey.

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2) Paperwork

I keep all of my important documents inside a wallet inside a waterproof toiletry style bag. If I required any medications, I’d keep them there with copies made of their prescriptions, too.

Worth mention is that I have two wallets; one for all of my needs on the road, and a light-weight standard wallet for when I go out.

My larger wallet is a “#balla” wallet, also designed by Nomads for Nomads. It can easily store a number of cards, currencies, passport and you can store your Departure Card without folding it.

The #balla wallet is now called the Baller wallet, and you can pick one up at http://ballerleather.com

Some items I keep together in my documents bag include;

  • Boarding pass
  • Passport
  • Copies: Passport, cards, ID, itinerary
  • Thailand Departure card
  • Cash in 2 or 3 different currencies (lately Kip, USD, and Thai baht)
  • SIM cards for every country I visit
  • Extra passport photos
  • Bank cards and credit cards Subway tokens for when in Bangkok
  • ID from home country such as Driver’s License, Health Card, etc.

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3) Toiletries

Many long-distance flights (on Etihad, for instance) will provide you with sleep masks, toothbrushes, toothpaste, and so on. This list is for anyone who doesn’t want to chance it;

  • Toothbrush
  • Toothpaste
  • Floss
  • Eye mask
  • Inflatable neck pillow
  • Cologne
  • Anti-perspirant
  • Condoms
  • Gravol (for stomach issues or as a sleep aid)
  • Electric beard trimmer (which I tossed after 6 months in favor of a beard)
  • Earplugs
  • Travel towel (microfiber)
  • Nail clippers (once had to leave them behind at airport security)

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4) Electronics

Smart phones free up a lot of space. Travelers can eliminate additional items like a portable WIFI hotspot, MP3 player, and video player with a good smart phone.

Ensure that your smart phone is unlocked to work with any carrier and can tether its data connection to your laptop by cable or wirelessly via WIFI or Bluetooth.

It is now legal to be able to unlock your smartphone in the USA. Unlocking means allowing the phone to work with any carrier, “jail breaking” is something else entirely.

When I came to Thailand, my carrier had a steep cancellation fee so I gave my phone away to a friend and had them resume my contract. I picked up a used phone in Bangkok at MBK, but you can pick one up anywhere. They sell cheap burners at 7-Eleven, although smart phones and all other electronics are generally the same price in Thailand as they are back home.

  • Smart phone (Get your phone unlocked by your carrier in advance!)
  • Mac Air
  • External hard drive
  • USB stick
  • Portable speaker with built-in battery (also available at 7-Eleven)
  • Kindle ebook reader
  • Earphones
  • GoPro camera with watertight case
  • USB rechargeable battery pack

Special Note for Udemy Instructors, Podcasters, and other Media Producers: While there are a handful of recording studios in Chiang Mai, it might be best to pack your own additional recording gear or tablet you use as a teleprompter.

A coworking space called Coffee Monster does have a mic and a recording room that you can use, just add your laptop. I’ll get to Coffee Monster, later.

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5) Clothes

In hindsight, I learned that when it comes to clothing you could arrive with two sets of clothing and pick up the rest on arrival for the most part. Dress shirts can be custom made for cheap, and t-shirts, flip-flops, shorts, swim shorts, etc can all be purchased after you settle in on a need-to-wear basis.

However if winging it was your thing, you wouldn’t be reading this travel guide! Today, this is what I carry;

1 pair of socks
2 pairs of shorts
1 pair swim shorts for the pool or working out
1 pair pants to travel in
1 pair dress pants
5 t-shirts
1 dress shirt
3 pairs of underwear
1 leather belt
1 medium weight sweater

I strongly suggest that anything that is normally cotton –make it Merino wool. Merino wool pulls moisture away from the body in ways cotton never could, it reduces or eliminates odours naturally, regulates temperature (warms you in cold, cools you in heat), and it retains its shape much better than cotton. Merino is also stain and UV resistant, so it ages gracefully. Anything you purchase in Merino wool will outlive its cotton competitor by many, many times.

So that means Merino wool is ideal for t-shirts, socks, and underwear. Some popular Merino brands include Icebreaker, ExOfficio, Patagonia, and Ibex.

For stylish pants, I strongly recommend Bluffs by Bluffworks for similar reasons as Merino wool products. They are incredibly durable, wrinkle-free even after being balled up in a bag for 2 weeks, quick-drying, machine washable, and very breathable which makes them ideal for warmer climates. If you choose to only bring one pair of pants, these are ideal for work or pleasure.

You can find your pair of Bluffs here: http://shop.bluffworks.com

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5) Other Stuff

  • Notebooks
  • Pen
  • Pencil
  • Colored pencils
  • Pencil sharpener
  • Water canteen (for water refill stations)

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6) Footwear

I brought shoes with me, however I picked up my sandals in Pai. There’s a really great street vendor that sells flip-flops in Pai that are made completely out of comfortable yet durable rubber. Just about every vendor sells flip-flops, so you could likely skip packing them initially.

I now own three pairs of footwear;

Blundstone boots for travel or inclement weather
Jogging shoes that double as “water shoes”
Quality rubber flip-flop sandals

I love my Blundstone boots because they come with a two-year extended manufacturer’s warranty and they slip on without laces that can wear and break. The road is long and dirty; these boots are easily cleaned and more comfortable than a pair of Doc Martens.

How to get Cheap Insurance in Thailand

How to get Cheap Insurance in Thailand cmbadmin

If your staying or living in Thailand, and require medical treatment, the last thing you want is the Hospital insisting on cash because your overseas Insurance agent can not communicate in Thai. Same thing applies with a motorcycle that gets lost or damaged.   If you make the mistake of using International Insurance policies, when it comes  to making claim you won’t have the benefit of a local Insurance agent by your side, working on your behalf.

For anyone who has lived in Thailand for a while, and has faced the task of attempting to get something done with a Thai business or company (or Hospital) – the benefits of having an English and Thai speaking person who knows how to deal with them needs no sales pitch.  Finding an Insurance agent who can do this for you is the difficult task

In a Nutshell

In a Nutshell

  • Insurance is Cheaper in Thailand
  • Local Agents work hard on your behalf
  • Home and Contents Insurance
  • Accident Insurance
  • Health Insurance
  • Life Insurance
  • Travel Insurance

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thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
Our main focus at Chiang Mai Buddy is to source local Thai Business that are either experienced with Western values (and speak English) or is owned by a westerner.  We have done the same with Insurance and found an English speaking agent who not only has access to several Insurance companies (including a couple of international Institutions) to request quotes.  She is also popular among the Burmese working here because she put’s a customers budget and economic assets as a priority.  In other words she is skilled at finding the lowest quotes available.

Types of Expat Insurances that are a must have

1) Life Insurance (~ 10,000 Baht)

If you are a long term resident of Thailand and have married a Thai person (or are a retired couple) Life insurance protects the people who are financially dependent on you. If your spouse, children or other loved ones are likely to face financial hardship if you died, life insurance should be high on your list of required insurance policies.

For most people in the western world Life Insurance is something that is really only needed for the first 25 years of marriage or of your children’s life.  Usually by the end of this time, your kids have left the nest and are earning on their own, and you have made substantiation payments on your house and have savings that your spouse can manage in the event of your death.  But once you come to Thailand, especially if you have married again and settled into a family situation, you are aware that your spouse is usually totally dependent on your financial resources.

Thailand Insurers have developed a range of life insurance products that are designed to protect policy holders and provide future financial security. The added benefit of a Life Insurance policy is that you can attach various other modules to your policy including

A) Life Protection Insurance helps you build financial security for your family. Benefits will help reduce the financial burden arising through unexpected events; the policy reserves a lump sum payment for your family should such an event occur; a great way to express your responsibility, love and care to your family!

B) Medical Coverage

Hospital & Surgical Benefit
Provides reimbursement for medical expenses in case of hospitalization in a licensed hospital as an in-patient (IPD). In addition to life coverage from your basic life insurance policy, planning for medical expenditure is essential to keep you and your family well-protected against possible sicknesses. With Hospital and Surgical module, you are insured to receive prompt and quality medical care should sickness strike. Available up to 80 years old.

Hospital Stay Benefit
Hospital Benefits module provides daily cash benefit to compensate for loss of income in the event of being in business.  A full year of compensation is available

C) Accident Coverage Death by natural causes is one thing, but this is Thailand!  The accident module includes a death by accident and can be either a lump sum, or a death benefit.  Oddly the payout at times of festivals like Songkrang (where death rates are higher by accident) is doubled.

2) Accident Insurance (From 2000 Baht)

Perhaps one of the more important Insurance policies to have (and anytime you drive in a car or motorcycle you are reminded that this is a good idea) is the standard Accident Insurance.  Accident insurance covers you for medical expenses and cash payments for any disability that might incur.  One of the key benefits of having local Thai Insurance for this, is that your agent (at least the one Chiang Mai Buddy uses) will be notified at the time of your accident and personally go to the hospital to immediately take control of what the hospital does and does not do with your treatment.

For example, As with many country’s your blood alcohol level play a part in making any insurance null & void.  A good agent working on your behalf will talk to the Police Officer reporting the accident and request that the hospital staff do not take any blood samples until the next day.  One of the many benefits of obtaining Insurance in Thailand.

A typical Policy will include:

A) Accidental Death
B) Dismemberment: Loss of use of body parts, including limbs cut below the wrist or ankle,
C) Permanent Disability: Impairment preventing you from functioning normally. Permanent Disability is divided into 2 types: Total Temporary Disability and Temporary Permanent Disability.

Common  Modules available to add to your Accident Insurance Policy

D) Family Care Giver: Monthly Family Care Giver is a care benefits or alimony, compensated monthly to a family member. Family members including spouse, children and parents of the insured person. In case of accident where benefits I or II are compensated, the company will make monthly payments to the family member for up to 60 months.
E) Monthly Living Benefit:  Monthly Living Benefit is compensation paid monthly to the insured person on the basis of the dismemberment, loss of sight or Total Permanent Disability.
F) Hospital Cash: Hospital Cash provides coverage in case the insured person is injured through accident and needs medical treatment at hospital.

3) Property Insurance
House 2M = ~4,000 Baht, 16M = ~16,000 Baht,  Car from 6,000 Baht

Same same throughout the world, people want to ensure they are protected from damage and loss to their home and contents, which can include (or Insure separately) your Vehicle. Your home isn’t just any residence. It is a special place that reflects your individuality, your lifestyle preferences and passion. While replacing your household property is relatively inexpensive in Thailand – so too is the cost of Insurance for this.

Like any Home and Contents Insurance, there are many options from the standard Fire protection to All risk coverage options. In is important to note that almost every condo or house lease agreement makes a requirement that this type of insurance is the responsibility of the tenant.  Typical Policies will cover ….

  1. Loss or damage of jewelry and watch as a result of burglary, robbery and gang robbery
  2. Exclusive extension to covered charcoal, bicycle, water pump, air conditioner ,compressor, and satellite
  3. Temporary accommodation and storage
  4. Theft, burglary and robbery
  5. Personal liability

4) Travel Insurance ~1,400 Baht for 60 days

Another policy offered around the world that tends to be cheaper to obtain while in Thailand (especially if you are traveling to other Asian countries).  Travel Insurance is determined by the amount of your valuables and the duration of your travel, and like most policies includes property with module add on’s for medical and accident coverage.

Travel insurance protects you from change or cancellation of flights (no cost to you to get accommodation and another ticket), offers a lump cash if your baggage is lost – and covers you for accidents and misadventures while aboard.

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Obtaining Insurance Price Quotes

Now days people prefer to do their price shopping for quotes online, and Insurance companies make this easy for you by offering to give free quotes.  Although ‘free’ usually means many followup calls and emails from the company as your information goes into their database. I know personally what an annoying experience this is, as I am still called monthly on my Las Vegas phone number (obtained with magicjack, a voice over internet system) for an online Insurance quote I requested in 2005.  The Indian company that the Insurance company uses to harass me, do not delete my number, and the Insurance company says this is beyond their control. The calls keep coming, I am accused of lying about living in Thailand and not needing American Insurance and I am disconnected when I asked to have my number removed.

For those that want to risk this happening (although I am sure it will be Thai speaking people calling you) some of the major Insurance companies websites (in English) are listed below.

Lifestyle Insurance
AIG
AIA
AXA

Difficulties giving a quote for Insurance

Insurance is one of those things that have a hundred different variables.  How much do you want to be covered for? How old are you? How long is the Policy for? Do you want to have added modules of extended coverage etc.

insurance quotes chiang mai

As I am writing this blog now, I have half a dozen brochures from our own Insurance agent all with tables of coverage and cost wondering how on earth I can make this simple and give you the reader an idea of the price.  The image above is the first page of 2 (6 tables) for the options available for Accident Coverage from one of several companies our agent can obtain an Insurance plan from. Our agent deals with 4 or 5 Thai based companies and 3 International Insurance names.

Insurance agent chiang mai

Chiang Mai Buddy getting Insurance with a Local Agent

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
Obtaining information about insurance is often complex and difficult. Sure online you are given just a few options, and with a few mouse clicks you are all done. You will clearly not have the range of options (and therefore lower prices) that can be obtained by a custom plan – nor will you have an agent who lives in Chiang Mai who knows how to deal with the various companies who your insurance plan will be paying.
We have found an amazing Insurance Agent, and we are more than happy to arrange an appointment for our customers

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Summary

Insurance is one of those necessary thing in life that when you are hard pressed economically tend to get avoided or put on the back burner.  Luckily we are in Thailand, and like so many aspects of living here, the cost of getting Insurance is drastically cheaper than from overseas.  In addition as many Expats know, the amount of work that many Thai Businesses do for you for free or for a tiny fee – makes getting insurance an affordable and easy process.

The real difficultly comes from finding an English speaking Insurance agent that will do this for you.  Many people will use high priced western businesses that act as a middle person on your behalf.  The fee they charge to provide this service for you is almost half what your Insurance Premiums turn out to be, but often since the policies and prices are in Thai, you are never quite sure what you are paying for insurance and what is the middle mans commission.

We at Chiang Mai Buddy also act as a middle man, connection service for Insurance (as well as many other services).    If you would like us to do this, just give us a call on the phone or make an appointment to give us an idea of what you would like and we will pass this information on to our agent.

Hiring a Maid, Cleaner or Housekeeper

Hiring a Maid, Cleaner or Housekeeper 150 150 cmbadmin

How to Hire a Maid, Cleaner or House keeper in Chiang Mai

One of the most common problems new arrivals have when they live in Chiang Mai, is the question of how to hire a Maid, Cleaner or Housekeeper.  Looking at westerner based forums on the topic, does not offer much in the way of useful information, with the most common sage wisdom being “Get a Maid who is referred by another Expat”.  This of course is not much help when you are new and have limited contacts.

Hiring a Maid, Cleaner or Housekeeper in Chiang Mai can be a complex problem, because there are so many options.  Let’s start by defining what combination of options there are, so that you can get a better idea of what you are looking for.

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In a Nutshell

In a Nutshell

Full Time or Part Time
Live In or Live Out
English Speaking Required
Specialty (farang) cooking
Cook-Housekeeper or Cleaner
Know the legal required Holidays
Where to Find your Maid
Condo Cleaner vs Housekeeper

 

thumbs upChiang Mai Buddy Advantage
We have found it difficult to find our customers a reliable English Speaking Cleaning Service in Chiang Mai for Move In/Out Cleaning Services or Regular Cleaning of condos.  So we helped a very smart local Thai person who speaks fantastic English, start her own Cleaning Business.  She is not only smart – she is incredibly hard working and holds herself up to standards that we farang expect. This standard of professionalism far exceeds what we have become used to in hiring Thai cleaning staff.  Click for more

Live In vs Live Out:
Do you want a employee that you provide a free lodgings and food for? Or do you want someone who will come to your place, work and go home.  Generally if you provide a room at your home and provide food, you can reduce the monthly salary by 2000-3000 baht per month.

Full time vs Part time
Having a maid full time means that usually you will be employing them for 6 days a week from approximately 7am-7pm plus or minus a couple of hours. The longer you hire a Cleaner or Maid the more economical the salary becomes from your prospective.

Maid vs House Keeper vs Cleaner
The term maid and house keeper are used interchangeably. In times gone by, the term Maid was for the female and a Male serving in the same role was called a Butler. Now days (and in particular here in Chiang Mai) when you refer to a housekeeper or maid you are talking about a cook-housekeeper.

Cook-Housekeeper:  This type of employee is usually engaged in full time work and does the domestic chores around the house.  Cooking, Cleaning, Laundry, Child Minding, Shopping, gardening and a variety of tasks that was the role of the traditional wife in days long gone.

Cleaner:  A cleaner is more likely to be a part time employee and will engage in cleaning duties which may sometimes include doing your dishes.  A cleaner will generally not do laundry or ironing or other domestic chores of a housekeeper.  They are there to clean – not be your maid.

Things to know when hiring a Maid

Hiring staff in a new country with a new culture is complicated. Farangs previous expectations of western work ethic, a lack of understanding of the culture, the sexpat who is looking for a girlfriend but employs a maid – are among some of the several issues that creates confusion in information about employing a maid.  Lets examine some of the things you are likely to face

1) How Much to Pay a Maid?

Maid Cleaning Service chiang maiSome long time residents of Chiang Mai will give you their ‘expertise’ of how to get the best value for money.  They will offer such titbit gems like, “You can pay a Bernese maid 100 baht a day, a Thai maybe 150-200”; then warn that you have to be careful they are often lazy (on their phones) or will steal from you.

I am hoping that most readers of this article will appreciate that a person who has a property large enough that they require a maid, yet make the conscience decision to pay someone $3-6 for a days work – is not someone who advice should be taken seriously.

Pricing is often a difficult choice. Generally you can take the following as a guideline

1) Non English speaking Maid live In 8,000-10,000 baht a month
2) Non English speaking Maid live Out 10,000-12,000 baht a month
3) English speaking Maid live In 10,000-12,000 baht a month
4) English speaking Maid live Out 12,000+ baht a month

If your maid speaks English, and has extra skills such as cooking western or specialty foods, ability to pay bills and balance budgets then you will pay more for these skills.

Entitlements

All domestic employees in Thailand are entitled to one day off per week, and no fewer than 13 public holidays per year, as well as sick leave.Another important thing to be aware of is that Thais typically get a 13 month payment as a bonus at the end of each year.  Maids and Housekeepers must get overtime for extra hours and working on entitled days off and holidays.

2) Thai Maids are Lazy!

Many people ready and willing to give their advice in forums will often point out that Thai people are lazy.  In many cases Thai people will also say the same thing.  So lets get a bit of perspective here.

Thai Mindset
You are employing someone almost always from a rural and farming background, probably with an extremely limited amount of formal education. And you are employing someone whose language has a limited use of  past, present and future tense.  The Thai mindset does not only not hold the same importance to a system of ‘time management’ we have in the west – more often than not, there is no conscious perception of the concept.

If your expectations are that your Thai Maid should have the same set of values and work ethic, as where you are from – you will constantly be disappointed.  It is you who is in a different country, with a different culture and set of values.  It is your responsibility to adapt to the country you are living in.

Cellphones/Family
For Thai people family is extremely important.  You maybe employing a younger person who has left children in the rural areas with their grandparents, or an older person who is valued and revered by their extended family.  Thai people will want and desire to stay in contact with their family (and friends).  Not having an understanding of this and (again) expecting the Thai people to behave and believe the same way you do – is setting yourself up for more disappointment.

3) Where to Find your Maids

You should first be aware of why you are wanting your Maid or Housekeeper.  For many Expats, the inability to speak Thai Language can make difficult tasks of the simplest of intentions. Having an English speaking Maid that can act as interpreter for both communication and understanding Thai culture will greatly increase the quality of life experience here. For many people they want the comforts of home – which means cooking in the style you grew up with.  Obtaining these things in addition to someone who just cleans up after you will require more pay and more effort to find and interview.

The best way to find such a person is through word-of-mouth referrals, from others in the Expat community who know of a maid looking for work or extra hours, your landlord, the internet or using a domestic help agency.  Unfortunately the English speaking services that have Maids looking for work are scarce in Chiang Mai (If you own one or know of any, please add the details in a comment)

Website Agencies
greataupair.com

4) Interviewing your Maid or Housekeeper

You should of course interview your potential Maid, making it clear they understand what their duties will be.  Be aware of …

Do you require cooking (if so, what kinds of cuisine?)
Childcare
Bill Payments
Laundry
Cleaning
Interpreter
Grocery Shopping
Live in or Live Out
Regular Working Hours
Overtime Rates
Food Allowance
Annual Bonus Payment date

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